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阿涅斯论瓦尔达 VARDA BY AGNÈS
导演&编剧 阿涅斯·瓦尔达
翻译：暖小喵
时间轴：purest
时间轴&技术协助：涅槃
合并调整：wkenryu
Subtitles: Sionann O'Neill
Subtitling: HIVENTY
感谢你们的欢迎，我发现这个好看的剧院， Thank you for inviting me.
Seeing this marvellous opera house turned into a cinema
是如此好看，它被改造成了电影院，
让我印象深刻。 intimidates me.
因为在高处，甚至可能有“天堂的孩子们”在那儿。 注：《天堂的孩子》（1945） There might be children of paradise up there.
我拍摄过的一些电影有的出了名，有的甚至非常有名 Some of my films are known,
some well-known,
其他的，并不出名。 others not.
因此，我必须要告诉你们，是什么引领着我 I'd like to tell you what led me
从事了这么多年这一项工作。 to do this work all these years.
对我来说有三个重要的词语： Three words are important to me:
灵感、创作、分享。 inspiration, creation and sharing.
灵感的意思是，为什么我们要拍摄这些电影？ Inspiration is why you make a film.
什么动机，什么想法，什么样的时机 The motivations, ideas, circumstances
and happenstance
或是偶然使我们产生了这个欲望， that ignite your desire to make a film.
使得我们决定开始拍摄（制作）一部电影。
创作，意思是我们如何拍摄一部电影？ Creation is how you make the film.
以什么样的方式，什么样的结构， With what means, what structure?
独自创作或是与人共同创作， Alone or not alone? In colour or not?
彩色或是黑白，（总之）创作是一项工作。
Creation is work.
而第三个词语是“分享”， The third word is sharing.
因为我们拍摄电影不是为了独自观看， You don't make films to watch them alone.
而是为了将其放映（给观众看）， You make films to show them.
看，你们本身就是分享的一个例子。 You are the very proof of this sharing.
这三个词指引了我， These three words guided me.
因为我们需要知道我们为什么从事这项工作。 We need to know why we do this work.
那么，我想用一部短片作为开始， I'll start with a short film,
这是一部在举行见面会时， one I often show in my talks.
我经常会放映的短片。
Because...
因为它介绍了我家族中的一员， a family member is in the film.
这就好像从前那样，一个老先生向我介绍他自己。 An older gentleman who will introduce me, as in the past.
是一次偶然的机会，
那时我在旧金山， By chance, I was in San Francisco
在一个电影节上。 for a festival.
然后，有个朋友跟我说：“有个人也许你认识。” A friend said, "You may know this man,
“有个画家也姓瓦尔达。” a painter named Varda.
他住在一艘船上，在索萨利托（Sausalito） He lives on a boat in Sausalito."
就这样我们准备去见他。 So we went to see him. It was a Wednesday.
那是一个周三，我们见到了他。
我对这个人“一见如故”。 I instantly fell in love with him.
我心想，我必须，一定把他拍下来。 I absolutely had to film him.
实际上， In truth,
重要的并不是我们的相遇， it wasn't so much about meeting him,
而是我脑海中很快就产生了如何拍摄他的一些想法。 it was about knowing right away how to film him.
在拍摄的过程中，我就已经思考了要如何剪辑这部短片。 I imagined the editing as I filmed him.
我想要展现，总之，分享 I wanted to share the spontaneity,
这次相遇所带来的兴奋和快乐之情。 joy and excitement of the encounter.
一般这种时候我们会做什么呢？我们会说：“（请看电影）片段”。 Now what happens? I say, "Film clip!"
瓦尔达先生， Mr. Varda?
我带了个人来，她想见你，她叫阿涅斯.瓦尔达。
阿涅斯？她是欧仁（Eugène）的女儿吗？
我不知道。 I don't know.
-你是欧仁.瓦尔达的女儿吗？ -嗯，对，是我。（法语） Are you Eugène Varda's daughter?
Yes lam.
-你是欧仁.瓦尔达的女儿吗？ -对，是我。（英语）
-你是欧仁.瓦尔达的女儿吗？ -对。（西班牙语）
场景 C8 第二次
-你是瓦尔达的女儿吗？欧仁的女儿？ -对。（西班牙语）
你是......的女儿吗？
-场景 CA ！ -欧仁.瓦尔达的女儿吗？（英语）
Cut!
场景 C12！
-也就是说，你是我的侄女！ -对，确实是。 -咔！ So, you are my niece!
Looks like it.
Cut!
所以，这是一个典型的奇迹的例子。 A perfect example of a miracle.
产生拍摄欲望和拍摄， From my inspiration to the shoot, there was a day and a half.
间隔不过一天半。
然后我就默默开始剪辑了。 Then I took my time editing.
我知道的是，对于有拍摄电影的想法的人， For those of you who want to make films,
尤其是刚开始从事这一项工作的人来说， especially those starting out,
必须要有耐心， you need patience.
因为我们需要有一个拍摄计划， You have a project, but you need money, from your school or elsewhere.
需要资金支持，可能是学校给的，也可能是别处。
因此， So...
在有耐心的前提下，尽可能缩短这个筹备阶段所耗费的时间， you need patience, but try to get around that obstacle.
用现有的资源和器材尽快开始拍摄。 Film quickly with the means at hand.
我用一种快乐的方式把这些呈现出来， I show this film for its good humour,
扬科（Yanco）是一个超棒的人。 and for the wonderful Yanco.
但我的电影中最为人所知的 But my most well-known film is Cléo from 5 to 7.
是《五至七时的克莱奥》。
我想有些人...你们中有人已经看过“克莱奥”了吗？ Has anyone in the audience seen Cléo?
啊...好吧..还是有一些的...“不少了”...按照南法的说法。 Nice!
A fair few, as they say down south.
“克莱奥”诞生于 Cléo was inspired
两个条件，或者说两个重要的背景之下。 by two very strong impressions.
在那个时代，六十年代， Back in the 60s, there were collective fears, as always.
像一直以来那样，人们有着一些共同的恐惧。
而那时（人们）共同的恐惧中最常见的是癌症。 The most common one was cancer.
人们害怕癌症。 People feared cancer.
另一方面，制作人跟我说： Also, the producer told me,
“你要知道” "I'll make a film with you, as I did with Godard and Demy,
“我想要的是
一部像我和戈达尔、德米拍过的电影一样，要拍的是小成本电影。”
but it has to be cheap."
该怎么做呢，拍小成本电影。 So how would we do it?
那只能拍一部在巴黎取景的电影，这样就没有差旅费了， We could shoot in Paris. No travel expenses, no hotels.
也不用支付酒店住宿的费用。
The action could take place in one day, limiting sets and locations.
然后，我心想，我可以把拍摄时间控制在一天内， 这样的话就不用太多的布景。
突然 It occurred to me to shorten the time frame further.
我脑海中出现了“缩短时间”的想法。
我想说的是，看，我想就在一个半小时完成拍摄， I'd film an hour and a half of her life. 90 minutes, like a film.
在90分钟内，一部电影的时长。
《五至七时的克莱奥》
“实际上，我从五点陪伴克莱奥到六点半。” I actually follow Cléo
from 5 to 6:30 p.m.
谈论时间是困难的， Illustrating time is difficult.
有我们所感受到的时间， Time feels different if we’re happy or if we’re anxious,
在我们感到好或坏，我们恐惧，
我们等待某些人或是我们感到快乐后感受到的时间， if we’re expecting someone or having fun.
我们把这些称为“主观时间”， I call that subjective time.
还有客观上的时间， And then there's objective time.
是我们无法左右的时间，机械的时间， Time we can't argue with. Mechanical time,
我们用小时，分钟，有时甚至用秒，来计算。 counted in hours, minutes or even seconds.
而我只是想， I wanted
在电影里把这两种时间结合起来， to combine objective time, the clocks we see everywhere,
客观上的时间，即时钟上显示的时间，我们随处可见的那些时间。
还有主观上的时间，克莱奥是怎样的感受， with subjective time,
the way Cléo feels during the film.
在电影的时长里。
-“你搞错了，这张卡片不一定是死亡的意思。” You're wrong. The card doesn't necessarily mean death.
即使占卜师跟她说，这不是死亡的意思，是你的内心曲解了它的意思。 The fortune teller says it means transformation, not death.
克莱奥看到了一个刽子手，她看到了碰撞在一起的骨头， But Cléo sees a hanged man and clattering bones.
她一下子...忽然就开始恐惧。 It gives her a fright.
而就是这种恐惧，这种死亡的威胁， Her fear and the threat of death,
即便在她不去想这些的时候，这些念头也萦绕着她。 consciously or subconsciously, stay with her.
就好像这个美丽的女人， Just like this beautiful woman
是Baldung Grien画的。 painted by Baldung Grien.
一具骷髅在她耳边低语，说着一些她不想听的话。 A skeleton whispers in her ear what she doesn't want to hear.
或者拉扯她的头发。 Or pulls her hair.
我有一些复制品，一些明信片，肉眼看上去很小的一张图画。 I had reproductions, postcards.
Tiny images to look at.
但在我心里，是一个巨大的图像，是我拍摄计划的重点。 And a big mental image at the heart of my project.
电影由两部分构成， The film is in two parts.
第一部分，45分钟；第二部分，45分钟。 First 45 minutes, second 45.
Exactly in the middle, she sings her song.
就在电影的中间点，她唱了一首歌。
如果你来得太晚... (Et si tu viens trop tard...) And if you come too late
人们已经将我埋葬...(On m'aura mise en terre...) I will have been laid to rest
孤单的，丑陋的，苍白的...(Seule, laide et livide...) Alone, ugly and pale
没有你...没有你...（Sans toi...Sans toi...） Without you
没有你。（Sans toi.）
够了... 我不行了... It's too much.
I can't go on.
这太可怕了！ It's horrible!
- 怎么了？ - 她累了。 - What's wrong? - She's tired.
- 还有，你知道吗，“cafard” （忧郁、沮丧）这个词是不吉利的， And you know, the word despair is evil. Like the word rope.
- 就像 “corde” （绞索、绳索） 这个词。
- 一个什么说明不了什么的词，只是更押韵而已。 但这是一首好听的歌，我跟你保证。 Rhymes matter more than words.
It's a beautiful song.
-这是为爱情的呐喊，你会在这首歌的世界里蜕变。 You'll revolutionise the music business!
-真的吗？但这首歌是什么呢？ Really? What is a song anyway? How long does it last?
-它的时长是多久？
-是随想曲。 Another tantrum.
-Caprices...Caprices...你们把这个词挂在嘴边。 注：Caprice 多义词，既有任性、反复无常的意思，也有随想曲的意思。 Tantrum, tantrum! That's all you ever say!
-但是你们把我变成了一个任性的女人。 有时，我就是一个傻瓜，一个无能的会说话的洋娃娃。 You make me this way!
Treating me like an idiot or a china doll!
-现在我要用这些透露着死亡气息的词语来进行改变。 Now I'll lead a revolution with grim words?
-但你所谓的迷人的歌曲就是这样的吗？我要用这些来取得成功？ You call that song charming? My big hit?
-它会变成一场众人出席的葬礼。 It'll be a hit funeral!
-你们让我恼火，你们这是在剥削我！你们走！ You tire me, you exploit me! Go away!
-不，该走的是我！ No, I’ll go! Angèle will make you drinks.
-Angèle会给你们准备喝的，讨论结束了。
Session's over!
-你们别管这些曲目了！我自己一个人选！ Leave the songs. I'll choose later.
这里, 我为这次展示做了两次剪辑。 I made two cuts for this presentation.
我穿黑色的衣服。 I'll wear black.
和你写的歌比较搭。 In harmony with your songs.
她从她家下楼梯，需要走十步台阶。我们把这十步拍了下来。 She goes down.
There are ten steps.
We filmed all ten.
还有那儿，我们拍下了她穿过这个大院子所走的每一步。 Then we filmed every step she takes to cross the courtyard.
这是一个为了避免距离和地理层面上的虚假的选择 We chose not to cheat with the distance or the geography.
这个院子面朝Huyghens路，也就是她走的这条路。 The courtyard leads to Rue Huyghens.
That's where she walked.
正是这条路，沿着它走下去就是Raspail大道， It's the actual street that leads to Boulevard Raspail.
人行道就是它原本的样子，有人看着她经过。 The sidewalk was as it was, with people watching her pass.
我想由第一部分的“精心设计” I wanted to go from the coquetry of the first part
转向一些更真实的东西，她，和在路上的一切。 to something more real.
Cléo and what happens around her.
人们、鸽子， People,
pigeons...
然后，她发现有个叫“健康”的商店。 Then she notices
a store called "Good Health."
然后，她甚至无法继续忍受这顶帽子。 And she can no longer stand the hat.
这张一成不变的洋娃娃般的脸，戴着这顶可笑的帽子。 That doll face, always the same. That ridiculous hat.
她把它摘了下来，她变成了一个（主动）观察的女人。 She takes it off. She becomes a woman who sees.
她不再是第一部分里那个被注视的女人了。她四处观察。 She's no longer seen, as in the first part.
She sees.
我注意到那儿有个街头艺人。 I'd noticed a street performer.
我叫她往回走， I asked him to come back. Look what she sees.
看她正在看什么。
这个男人为了谋生所做的事。 How a guy earns his living.
-我们换个鱼缸！ C'mere, froggy. Time for a new aquarium.
-第三只青蛙！ Third frog!
你们会发现，因为这是显而易见的， You can't help but notice.
即使是在故事片里， Even in fiction, I like to add documentary elements.
我也喜欢加入一些纪录片的元素。
在这部电影里，我们将伴随克莱奥的恐惧 In this film, as we follow Cléo and her fear,
会有人在咖啡馆里，会有人在路上，会和人擦肩而过。 we see people in cafés,
in the streets.
我喜欢纪录片，我知道有一些拍的很好的纪录片， I love documentaries.
I know great ones have been made in faraway places.
在世界上很遥远的地方拍摄完成，
这些长途跋涉的纪录片，对我来说太遥远了， But big documentary journeys are too far from me.
我想要拍摄我身边的，我所认识的一些人或事。 I want to film close to me. What I know.
« Daguerréotypes » 这部电影在我居住的街道，Daguerre路上拍摄完成 。 注：《达格雷街风情》(1976) Daguerreotypes was made on my street, Rue Daguerre.
我选择拍摄我附近的邻居，
I chose to film my close neighbours and the merchants,
还有一些做小生意的人。
those who sold me bread, meat, hardware. The hairdresser...
我从他们那里买面包、肉、五金…
还有个理发师，那儿有构成一个小村庄所需的全部。
They create a kind of village.
例如，在面包店里，人们排着队， At the bakery, people wait in line.
跟我们随处可见的一样。他们等待着，就在那儿， As everywhere, they wait their turn.
We were there for the time it took
跟呈现出来的这一幕一样，
买一些东西，或者卖一些东西。 to buy or sell something.
Nurith Aviv是一位摄影指导，"camera-woman"。 Nurith Aviv is...
a director of photography. A camerawoman.
是她拍摄了这些画面。 She did the work.
通过这些长镜头， We had sequence shots
我们（的镜头）会在这些正在等待的人身上停留很久， where the camera lingered on people waiting.
通常来说，什么都不会发生， Nothing happens,
- 但在内心会有一些变化。 - 是这样的... yet something happens inside.
That's it.
视频和广告总是很快， Videos and commercials move very fast.
但当我们处于一个时间段以内， But when you're in the duration,
我们会回到这个时间段内。 you're really in.
我们固定了机位 We got set up.
Nurith几乎没占多大空间，那时候，我跟她一样，总而言之... Nurith takes no space. Neither did I back then.
我们固定了机位，我们隐藏在一个孔后面， We got set up, hiding in a corner.
还有一个收音师在附近某个地方。 The sound engineer too.
我们构想的是拍摄下这些人， The idea was to film people,
无论他们是否能意识到别人的存在。 whether they realised it or not.
-三个像这样的？
-不对，是...
-20分，是60分...
如果我们决定观察一些 When you decide to look closely at something
我们可以称之为“普通的”东西，它并不普通。 that may be trite, it's no longer trite.
就我们观察它这件事本身而言，不是吗？ The very act of looking at it changes it.
没有什么是普通的，如果我们有对于我们拍摄的人的同理心和爱， Nothing is trite,
if you film people with empathy and love.
我们会发现他们是特别的。 If you find them extraordinary, as I did.
例如我们拍摄的工作中的面包师， We filmed that baker at work.
我觉得他很棒。 I loved how he scored the bread dough
当他在面包上弄一些小的切口时，他把刀片含在嘴里。
with his razor blade.
我很关注这些做小生意的人， I listened closely to what the merchants said.
对发生了的事，他们不太开放， They weren't very open.
对于陌生人也不太友善， They weren't very friendly to outsiders.
他们代表了一个少言寡语的群体，这就是我所拍摄下的内容。 They represented the silent majority.
That's what I filmed.
我想对于我刚说的，做一个对比。 It occurs to me,
in contrast to what I just said,
从前，我拍过一个少数群体。 that I once filmed an enraged minority.
（他们是）愤怒的，是黑豹党。
The Black Panthers.
这是一个美国黑人的组织， They were a movement of Black Americans
他们在1968年 who, in 1968,
创建了一个章程，主张自我表达，举行了很多游行， created a political program, spoke out and protested
因为两或者三个他们的领导人被逮捕了， because some of their leaders had been arrested
其中有一个被关进了监狱，Huey Newton。 and one was in prison, Huey Newton.
那时有很多游行，我和德米住在旧金山。 They held protest rallies.
Jacques Demy and I lived in Los Angeles then.
我坐飞机去奥克兰拍了一些游行的场景， I took a plane to film the protests in Oakland,
那个地方在旧金山附近， near San Francisco.
那时我只是一个个头很小的女人，带着一台用16mm胶片的摄像机， I was a little lady with a 16mm camera. I said, "French television"
我对他们说我是法国电视台的，他们就让我拍摄了。
and they let me in while they were training.
-你们是谁？ - Who are you? - Black Panthers.
-黑豹党！ -你们想要什么？ -释放 -释放Huey... - Why are you here? - To free Huey.
-用什么方式？ - How? - Huey's teachings.
-Huey的教育 -他是谁？ -射手。 - What are they? - The guns.
“这位兄弟、我、我们所有人” This brother here, myself, all of us were born with this hair.
“我们出生时头发就是这样，我们维持原样，因为这是天生的。”
We wear it this way because it's natural.
“因为黑人最近意识到他们的外形是好看的。” Black people now realise that black is beautiful.
这个黑豹党的运动没有大规模地持续很久， The Black Panther movement didn't last very long.
但是这是黑人群体的一次反抗， But it was a Black revolt,
他们想要获得自己的身份，同时它也是女权主义运动。
for their identity, and it was a feminist revolt.
女权主义当时在美国已经相当活跃， Feminism was already going strong in the USA in the 1960s.
在六十年代
当然，我自己也是， Obviously, I was a feminist.
我是女权主义者，并且也一直会是。 I was, and I still am.
也就是说， And I must say,
关于女性自由的一些问题， issues surrounding women's liberation,
是围绕着一个非常具体的主题展开的，即她们自己的身体的自由。
specifically, the question of body politics,
这个问题引起了我的很多注意。 really concerned me.
在那个年代，有一些抗争... Back then, there were struggles
有一些男人和女人们所进行的抗争， fought by both women and men
直到1972年， that led to contraceptive rights in 1972
（所有女性）获取了避孕权，1975年获取了堕胎的权利。
and abortion rights in 1975.
我跟你们说的是一些过去发生的事情， It's old history now,
是在我的生活中，一些我所知道，我想要呈现的一些事情。 but I experienced it
and wanted to tell the story.
因此， To do so,
我产生了拍摄一部关于两个年轻女人的电影， I got the idea of two young women.
其中一个女人已经有了孩子， One already has children, the other is a natural-born rebel.
而另一个是一个天生的反抗者。
-你怀孕几个月了？ How pregnant are you?
-2个月左右... 2 months, more or less.
-别哭了...你该去流产。 Don't cry, get an abortion.
-去哪儿流？怎么办？你觉得这很容易？ How, where? Think it's easy?
-我们会找到解决方法的。 We'll find a way.
-你们站着干嘛？ You're still up?
-André，你答应过我的！ André, you promised me!
-我不明白为什么你要这样撒谎，发生什么事了？ Why do you lie? What'd we do to you?
-我需要钱。 -你看...还是要钱！ - I needed money. - As always.
-那你该跟我们说啊！ Why didn't you ask?
-是为了堕胎。 It was for an abortion, you’d say no.
-你说什么？ What?
-我说，我有个朋友Susane，要堕胎， My friend Suzanne needed money for an abortion.
她需要钱。
她们的友谊会长存， Their friendship lasts.
十年后， 10 years later, we see them again,
我们会重新见到她们，
她们各自经历了一些冒险、 after they've both lived, loved and fought the feminist fight.
爱情和女性的抗争。
这个女权主义的抗争， The feminist fight
我想...我想要... was something I wanted
用歌唱的形式来表现它， to put into song.
爸爸不再是教皇，也不是国王， No papa no pope no king
不是法官，或是医生 No judge no doctor
也不是立法者 (ou le législateur) 那些给我们制订法律的人 ！(qui me feront la loi!) No legislator
Gonna lay the law on my body
生物学不等于命运 (Biologie n'est pas destin ) 而爸爸(制订的)法律毫无意义。 (et la loi de papa ne vaut plus rien.) Biology isn't fate
Papa's laws are out of date
我的身体属于我自己 My body belongs to me
而且我自己知道 （et c'est moi qui sais） I'm the one who knows
我是否想要 (si je veux ou pas) 生孩子。(mettre bas.) Whether or not
I want to give birth
是否想要在这个底层的世界 Whether to bring new life
怀上孩子， To this earthly existence
肚子平坦或是鼓起，我自己选择。 Whether to be flat or round
The choice is mine
我的身体属于我自己。 My body belongs to me
我的身体属于我自己。
我对这件事情很上心，我想把这些用歌唱出来， I really took it to heart.
For the music, I hired François Wertheimer
于是我找到了François Wertheimer和一个叫做Orchidée的女性组合一起合作。
and a girl group called Orchidée.
例如，一些恩格尔和马克思的文字， We used texts by Engels and Marx.
说出来很有趣， A very interesting thing:
“现如今，在家庭里” "Nowadays, in the family, the man is the bourgeois,
“男人是资产阶级，女人代表了无产阶级。”
and the woman represents the proletariat."
把这些唱出来，会显得不那么生硬。但仍然把这些说了出来。 It flows better in a song.
But it's worth saying.
你听到了吗，鸟儿？听！ Hear that, birdie?
Listen.
当男人和女人都做全职工作时， When men and women both work full time,
我们可以为女人的双重生活配上音乐。 you can set to music the double shift women do.
Domestic Habits
一段不可思议的友谊产生了， Incredible friendships formed
在这个“共同的斗争”中的友谊。 in that collective struggle.
女性以一种快乐的方式进行斗争，我们时常大笑， The women were often joyful.
We laughed a lot as we fought for women's rights.
当我们为了女性权利所斗争的时候，
这种快乐的心情和这种集体性， The joy and good humour of the group come across in the film, I hope.
我想通过电影传递出来。
过了很久之后，我找到了衔接两者的桥梁。 Now I'll make a jump.
Much later, I told the story of a girl in a rage.
我开始讲述一个愤怒的女孩的故事，
并不是群体性的，而是她一个人的，一个孤独的愤怒的女孩。 Not in a group this time, alone.
An enraged loner.
以前有许多小伙子在路上流浪， A lot of guys were out on the road.
这甚至变成了一种潮流， It was kind of in fashion.
然后我发现 And I'd noticed women were also doing it.
现在有一些年轻女孩也这样，背着包就出发了。
Backpacking.
我想要拍摄 I wanted to make a film about these lawless vagabonds.
这些没有屋顶（没有固定的住所），也不喜欢法律规定（没有法律）的年轻人。
我想要拍摄一些可以表现自由和肮脏的东西， I wanted to film freedom and filth.
讲述一个流浪的女孩的故事。 Tell the story of a young woman on the road.
于是，我写了电影« sans toit ni loi » 的剧本。 注：直译《没有屋顶，也没有法律》，豆瓣译名《天涯沦落女》 So I wrote the film Vagabond.
我找到了Sandrine Bonnaire， I asked Sandrine Bonnaire,
她曾主演过Pialat（莫里斯.皮亚拉）导演的电影《关于我们的爱情》 那时她只有17岁， who'd been in Pialat's A Nos Amours
and was still only 17.
我心想，她正是我寻找的影片中女孩的年纪。 She was exactly who I needed.
-这儿有香烟店么？ -不是这里，往前走一些... - Is there a tobacco shop? - Not here.
她(的形象)被别人描述， She's described by the people she meets.
被那些她遇见的人描述，他们谈论她，对她的评价很差。
They speak of her quite badly.
莫娜的愤怒是她坚持活下去的动力。 Mona's anger is what keeps her alive.
为了不停向所有人说不，这也将她引向了死亡。 But saying no to everyone leads her to her death.
电影的结构是非常具体的， The film's structure was precise.
我希望影片像她一样在路上行进， I wanted the camera to walk the roads with her.
为了用电影的方式诠释，我选择了使用推轨镜头。 To do that,
I used tracking shots.
电影里一共13个推轨镜头， There are 13 in the film.
每个推轨镜头从右到左移动，这是有些恼人的， The shots move right to left, which is jarring,
因为这跟西方的常规阅读顺序相反。 because it's the opposite of how we read in the West.
每个可以持续进行一分钟左右， Each tracking shot lasts one minute.
我们跟随莫娜拍摄， We accompany Mona and her backpack.
我们的拍摄在乡间进行， We're in rural farm landscapes, not particularly charming.
这儿的乡村风景并没什么特别好看的。但在每个推轨镜头结束后，
At the end of each tracking shot, the camera leaves Mona
我们会离开莫娜，就地拍摄一些其他的东西或者元素。
to film a local element or object.
在影片中，这样的推轨镜头后， Each subsequent tracking shot comes about 10 minutes later
大约每隔十分钟，
and starts with an object or element
会出现一个其他的东西或是元素，和我们看到的是一模一样的。
reflecting what we've seen.
我很高兴，在影片中加入一个小小的谜语，而谜底在我这里。 I enjoyed setting up an enigma for which only I knew the secret.
事实上，整部影片构成了一幅肖像画， Actually, the entire film
is a portrait in the form
是以不连续的推轨镜头的形式构成的。
of a discontinuous tracking shot.
在影片中， （每隔）十分钟后， Ten minutes later in the film...
这就是我衔接后面的推轨镜头的方式。 this was the next tracking shot.
伴随着Joanna Bruzdowicz的音乐， To music by Joanna Bruzdowicz,
仅仅是为推轨镜头做的曲子， composed solely for the tracking shots.
好消息，Sandrine刚刚到了，Sandrine Bonnaire。 A lovely surprise, Sandrine has arrived.
我刚刚想说的是电影的结构，而和你在一起， I've talked about structure.
Now I'd like to discuss what the role meant to you.
我希望你能跟我们说说，对你而言，这些角色是什么？
我们第一次见面时，总而言之，你第一次跟我描述这个角色时，你跟我说... The first thing you told me about the role was,
"She's a girl who...
这是一个从不说谢谢的女孩，浑身发臭，她向所有人说“去你妈的”。 never says thank you, stinks, and tells everyone to fuck off."
我们从没有说过... We never discussed
这个女孩从哪儿来，为什么她在路上流浪， where she came from or why she was on the road.
我们只是想要展现她如何生存，总之，日常生活中， It was about how she lives.
How she finds food, where she sleeps, how she behaves.
她怎么找吃的，她睡在哪里，她的行为。
总之，我们要表现的不是心理， We didn't analyse her.
而是做了什么， We focused on what she did.
-在动作之中。 -在行为里... -在行为里。 - Her actions. - And behaviour.
你重复了拿起和放下背包的动作， You practiced putting on your backpack.
穿靴子，脱靴子的动作。 Putting on your boots.
你让我去和Setina露营... You sent me camping with Setina.
-如果我没记错的话。 -你们在户外过夜了。 -我们在户外住了一晚...
- You slept outside. - We did.
-你希望我学会生火和搭帐篷。 You wanted me to learn to make a fire and pitch a tent.
-我记得有一个场景，是你得修你的鞋子... There's a scene where you repair your boots.
-这就是，一些具体的要做的事情。 It was all concrete, physical things.
-如果我没记错的话，修剪葡萄树。 I remember pruning grapevines.
-像修剪葡萄树一样，那是一些简单的动作，但具体的。 Pruning requires simple but precise gestures.
-你完完全全接受了我说的话。 You accepted me saying, "You're Mona, figure it out."
-我跟你说：“你是莫娜，你自己应付这些。”
-你自身的反抗，通过莫娜这个角色表现了出来。 Your own rebellion went into the character.
-是，我就在那儿。 I just needed to be there.
-是，你在那儿，既犟又倔。 And you were. Solid and tough.
-而我，那时对你也不太温柔，对你有点粗暴。 I wasn't easy on you. I gave you a rough time.
Come on!
-我记得有一次，我在花园里用锹翻了不知道多少米的土， I remember at one point, I'd dug up a whole garden patch
and had blisters.
-我手上起了水泡，我跟你说：“看，阿涅斯，你想要的真的水泡。” I said, "Real blisters, like you wanted!"
然后你说：“哦，好。” You said, "Good!"
-你当时的态度让我很恼火。 That bugged me!
-我应该舔舔你的水泡来感谢你... I should've licked your blisters in thanks!
-不，真正非比寻常的是，在影片的开头，你就已经死了。 The film is unusual,
because you're dead at the start.
-即便那时我很年轻，你(通过这个方式)想象你自己的死亡，必然是这样... Even though I was young, I imagined my own death.
Obviously.
-要求你这么做， And we made you to do it. Get in the bag like a corpse.
-把你像一个尸体一样裹进一个袋子里。 -这让我整个人感到不安。
That really freaked me out.
-电影是这样的，让我感到印象深刻的是， Cinema can be very humbling.
-我们有一些拍摄计划，我们把它们写成剧本， You have a project, you write it, you make it,
-和像你这样的演员合作，将它变成电影。 with an actress like yourself...
-但在我们拍摄的同时， But during the shoot,
我们会经历一些令人不安的事情。 things can feel quite harrowing.
在莫娜死后的镜头后出现的是一片海滩。 After the shot of dead Mona, a beach...
海滩是灵感产生的地方， Beaches are a place of inspiration.
是存于内心的风景。 A mental landscape.
这很好，因为在这里有三种元素：天空，大海，和土地。 You have the three elements.
Sky, sea and earth.
土地在这里是沙子，掺杂着一些海草。 Here, the earth is sand and seaweed.
这让我想起了Bachelard（加斯东·巴什拉）的书， I remember the works of Bachelard,
我曾经在索邦大学旁听过这个哲学家的课， a philosopher whose classes I attended.
《水与梦》 、《天空与梦》 注：她说的是《天空与梦》，le ciel et les songes ，实际的书名是《气与梦》，l'air et les songes Water and Dreams,
Air and Dreams,
《土地与静息的梦想》 Earth and Reveries of Repose.
梦、梦想、 Dreams, reveries,
休息，这些都是我喜欢的。 dreams and repose. Everything I love.
但他也写过《土地和意志的梦想》， But he also wrote Earth and Reveries of Will.
我想在这里继续我的讲座。 I'll continue my chat here.
我邀请了鸟儿和孩子。 And I'll invite birds and children.
在鸟儿面前说话是很迷人的。 It's charming to talk to birds.
无论你说的是对是错，鸟儿都听不懂。 But real or fake, they don't understand me.
正因为我们拍摄电影是为了与观众分享， We make films to share with audiences,
我心想，如果没有观众看电影， so I thought, "How awful it'd be if they didn't listen or watch."
那该有多糟糕！
电影人的噩梦：放映厅里一个人都没有。 A filmmaker's nightmare.
An empty cinema!
噩梦！ Nightmare!
在我那些在影院公映过的电影之中， Some of my films did well in the cinema.
有些，像人们说的那样，成功了，而有些却没那么成功。
Others less so.
我要跳过一些片子， We'll jump around. I can't talk about all my films.
因为我无法讲述我的每一部电影，我不能按“犯罪学”顺序来说，
I can't follow the crim...
不是“犯罪学”，是时间顺序。 注：口误，混用了chriminologie 犯罪学 和 chronologie 年代学 Not the criminology, the chronology!
而我们要跳转到一部关于夏天的电影， We'll jump ahead to a summer film I made
是我在六十年代拍摄的，这部电影叫作《幸福》。 in the 1960s
called Happiness.
我想到了印象派的画作，它们散发出一种忧郁的感觉， I imagined Impressionist paintings, with their melancholy.
它们描绘的是一些日常生活中的幸福的场景。 And yet they're happy scenes of daily life.
听着莫扎克的乐曲，我想到了死亡。 I listened to Mozart and pondered death.
这部电影无论是剧本的写作还是拍摄都进行得很快。 I wrote and shot the film quickly.
就好像夏天的光一样短暂。 Like the bright clarity of our too-short summers.
Go to sleep kids. Daddy's sleeping.
Be quiet.
我想要诉说的幸福就像传统形式的描述中一样： I wanted to show happiness as it is traditionally described.
一对年轻的夫妇，有漂亮的孩子，
A woman and a man, beautiful children.
他们喜欢大自然，他们都很友善，不自负。 They love nature.
They're friendly, unpretentious.
这样一个典型的小幸福。 A template for happiness.
但我想把这个幸福 And I wanted to set the story in Ile-de-France.
置于大巴黎地区的背景下，
那儿有些地方， In places that had inspired the Impressionists.
有些印象派作家作了许多画。
我是在夏天拍摄的，拍摄场景的色调 I shot in summertime,
in soft, delicate tones.
极其柔和，极其细致。
我用莫扎特的乐曲作为这部电影的配乐， I accompanied the story with music by Mozart,
在我看来他的音乐表达了幸福的感觉， 但却也有一点点不安和焦虑在里面。 which seemed to express happiness
with a little dash of anguish.
Jean-Claude Drouot 当时是一部电视剧的主角， Jean-Claude Drouot was a TV hero.
那个电视剧叫«Tierry la Fronde»。 He was Thierry la Fronde.
我去见了他，问他能不能参演， I went to the woods to ask him to be in my film.
他在马上，戴着他的奖牌，像这样： He was on horseback, in costume.
铛铛铛...铛铛铛...
I said, "Excuse me, sorry to bother you.
我说，不好意思，打扰一下，
请问您想参演一部电影吗？ Would you agree to make a film with your real wife and kids?"
和您现实生活中的妻子和孩子一起。
最终他的妻子有一些犹豫，但还是答应了拍摄。 His wife hesitated at first, but they did it.
-你知道吗，事情解决了，Annie可以照看孩子到8点半。 It's no problem. Annie can come babysit at 8:30.
-我们刚好可以赶上9点那一场， We can make the 9 o'clock show.
-我喜欢这样。 I’d love that.
这个故事看上去很简单， On the surface, it's a simple story of a happy family.
就像一个小的家庭故事。
他和他的妻子生活得很幸福， He's happy with his wife.
但他遇到了一个邮局职员， But then he meets a postal worker.
她长得很像他的妻子， She looks like his wife.
然后他爱上了她。 He falls in love.
他以为我们可以在幸福之中再加上一些幸福。 He thinks you can
add happiness to happiness.
在那个年代，关于这个电影我们谈论了很多。 报刊上经常讨论的是： The critics had a field day. Outrageous!
忠诚有意义吗？我们能拍摄出幸福吗？我们有这项权利吗? Does fidelity mean anything?
Can you film happiness? Do we have the right?
我享受选择颜色的过程， I had such fun choosing the colours.
我玩转了蓝色 I went all out on the blue,
黄色、红色 the yellow, the red...
这是野餐的一幕，主要是红色。 Here we have a predominantly red picnic.
这也是为了实现一个想法：通常我们结束一个场景， I also thought,
instead of ending the scenes with the traditional fade to black,
会习惯于用黑色淡出。
用彩色淡出会很好看。 it'd be nice to fade to colours.
像这样，场景以红色、 So the scenes ended
in red, blue, purple, yellow.
蓝色、紫色、黄色结束...
我甚至有做一面旗帜的想法， I even made a flag,
with a dissolve in blue,
用蓝色、白色、 one in white, and one in red
还有红色，用这些颜色淡入法国国庆节的场景，
to announce Bastille Day.
7月14日 July 14th.
这是一部电影，我想这么形容它， I used to describe the film
它就像一个夏天的美丽桃子， 色彩是那么的好看，但在里面有一条虫子。 as a beautiful summer peach with a worm inside.
这是一个悲剧。 A tragedy.
他承受不住这个时刻， He cannot bear the situation.
事实上，他无法熬过这个瞬间。 He can't connect to it.
因此，我不断重复这一幕， So I used repetition.
我尝试去“重复”， I tried repetition.
我运用了“重复”的手法。 I used repetition.
我想要谈论一部影片的“整体性”， I'd like to discuss what a film is as a whole.
在文学中，我们常用“风格”这个词， In literature, they use the word style.
在电影中，我想要用“cinécriture”（电影写作）这个词。 In cinema, I use the word cinewriting.
就是整体的一些选择， It covers all the choices made throughout the making of a film.
在制作电影的整个过程中
涉及到的画面， What do you film? Fluid or abrupt shots?
是平滑还是冲撞的镜头，非常干净、孤立的画面
Clear, isolated images or crowded spaces?
或是在一个拥挤的空间里的画面，
有无配乐， Pacing? Music?
是在剪辑室内这些工作变得明确起来。 It all takes shape in the editing room.
我有时会加入一些评论，因为我想要呆在影片里面， I sometimes add commentaries,
to stay in the film and be with the audience.
和观众呆在一起。
但，直到剪辑和混音时，电影写作才结束。 But in editing and mixing we finish the cinewriting.
有时，一部电影的开始，是因为生活迫使我们去拍摄它。 As for how a film starts, life sometimes decides.
在我生命中非常悲伤的一个时刻 At a very sad time of my life, when Jacques Demy was ill,
是雅克.德米生病的时候，
他向我诉说，他也写了一些关于他的童年回忆的文字， he shared his memories, wrote them down.
他非常喜欢这些童年的回忆。 Fond memories of his childhood.
他在南特长大， He was raised in Nantes, in the garage where his father worked.
在他父亲工作的修车行里。
他做了一些记录， He was taking notes.
每隔两三天就拿给我看， Every few days he showed them to me.
我说这会是很好的剧本，你想把它写出来么？ I said, "This would be a great film. Will you make it?"
但他说他太疲惫了，没法将其写成剧本。 He said, "You do it, I'm too tired."
于是我写了一个关于雅克.德米的童年的剧本。 So I wrote a script about Jacques Demy's childhood.
拍摄在他长大的同一个修车库进行， Set in the actual garage.
那个修车铺有了新的主人， We kicked out the mechanics. They let us use the place.
我们问他：“您能不能把车库借我们？”
加油器还是原来那个， The old gas pump was still there. It hadn't been removed.
被挂在墙上，没有被拆掉。
这是一段非常特殊的经历， It was a very particular experience.
因为我用三种方式处理了这部电影: I approached the film in three different ways.
一部分黑白的影片，就像三十年代的那些电影一样， Black-and-white footage,
1930s style,
叙述了他童年的故事。 tells the story of his childhood.
有一部分彩色的片段， Then there were colour excerpts
是雅克.德米拍摄的电影中的一些片段， from films Jacques Demy made later,
这些片段的灵感源于他童年的一些场景。 all inspired
by his childhood.
-发动机冷却会发出一点爆音，但这是正常的。 The engine knocks when it's cold, don't worry.
-谢谢！ Thank you.
-好了吗？ Is it ready to go?
-是的。 Yes.
-发动机冷却会发出一点爆音，但这是正常的。 The engine knocks when it's cold, don't worry.
另外，还有一些类似第三部影片一样的影像， And then there was a third film within the film.
因为雅克那时还活着，但他病得很重， Jacques was still alive, but very ill.
正如我们爱他的方式，我想在离他最近的地方， I loved him and wanted to be as close as possible,
在离他最近的地方帮助他。 help him as much as I could.
于是在电影中，出现了很多离他（身体）很近的镜头。 In film terms, that meant extreme close-ups.
-所有的电影，都想让时间静止，拒绝死亡。 The whole film is a desire to stop time and deny death.
-不，不，我不这么觉得。 No.
I don't see it that way.
-不是让时间静止，而是为了和时间共存。 Not to stop time. To accompany time.
电影是在雅克走向死亡的时候拍摄的， The film accompanies Jacques as he dies.
和回忆他的童年的雅克一起拍摄的。 As he remembers his childhood.
有些人对电影的热爱产生得很早， The love of cinema starts early for some.
雅克小时候，他曾经“发明”了电影，我敢这么说。 Little Jacquot invented cinema, I dare say.
-看！
Look.
-你把这些都装好啦... Nice set up.
-别碰它，很容易坏！ - It's fragile! - What is it?
-你别站在摄影机边上，它被精确地摆放在这个位置。 Don't bump into the camera.
-看，如果我动一下这个“跳舞的小人”， Look. To make the ballerina move,
-我动一下她的腿，我拍摄一个画面。 I move her leg and take a shot.
-我动一下她的腿，我拍摄一个画面。 Move her leg, take a shot.
-我动一下她的腿，我拍摄一个画面。你明白了吗？
Get it?
-这就像一个连续的运动。举个例子，假设我们拍摄我的胳膊， It creates a continuous movement. If you film my arm...
-嗒，嗒，嗒... -它成了一个连续的运动。
you get a continuous movement.
-你明白了吧？现在你下楼去，因为我需要安静和集中注意力。 Now get going. I need quiet concentration.
-啊，完全不行，画面都糊了。真的不行。 No good. It's all out of focus.
No good at all.
几年后，他没能如愿， Several years later, against his will,
不得不在他父亲的修车铺里工作。 Jacquot worked in his father's garage.
-这东西（轮胎内胎），你要把它放哪里？ And this goes around the customer's neck?
客人来了以后，你要把这东西套他脖子上吗？重做。
Start over!
-天呐，你刚在想什么呢？ Where's your mind?
当然是好莱坞啦！ On Hollywood!
-你算哪门子的修车工啊！ Some mechanic!
后来那些年是特别的， It's extraordinary. Years later,
“瑟堡的雨伞”取得了非凡的成功， after the success of The Umbrellas of Cherbourg,
他被邀请去好莱坞拍电影。 he was invited to work in Hollywood.
我陪他去了。 I went with him.
在洛杉矶，我和大家一样， In Los Angeles I discovered, like everyone,
发现了好莱坞大道的人行道上的星星图案。 the stars of the stars
on Hollywood Boulevard.
我也遇到了嬉皮士这新一代人的偶像和明星， And I met some of the idols and stars
of the new Hippie Generation.
他们想要在好莱坞取得成功， They wanted to make it in Hollywood their way.
但前提是要依照他们自己的生活方式进行。
-明星
-这个词击中了我
-我们...是明星
三个演员留着满头的头发，狮子。 Three actors with big manes of hair: Lions.
这是一个关于爱情的三重奏，爱。 A love triangle: Love.
电视和报道，谎言。 注：《狮子、爱、谎言》（1969） Television and the news: Lies.
至于演员的选择，我找到了嬉皮士时代的一些代表人物: For the cast, I chose heroes of the hippie scene.
Rado 和 Ragni，他们写了他们主演的音乐剧《毛发》(Hair)的剧本。 Rado and Ragni, who wrote and played in Hair,
而Viva，她是Andy Warhol的御用女演员之一。 and Viva, Andy Warhol's muse.
我在纽约制片厂和Andy说这件事， I went to the Factory in New York to see Andy,
为了让他给我介绍Viva，让他说服她，因为她有些独特。 so he'd introduce us and convince her. She was tricky.
-Viva，你该拍这个电影！
-Agnès 超棒的!
-她拍过一部很棒的电影：《五到七时的克莱奥》。
然后他说， Then he said:
如果我拍电影，
我会在五点到七点之间拍摄。
在影片中还有另外一个人物， Another character in the film was the television set.
它就是电视机，
它一直在那儿，论证着这部影片的精神思想， It was always there, embodying the spirit of the film:
也就是说，性和政治。 sex and politics.
参议员Robert F.Kennedy
今早1点44分去世了。
1968年6月6日。
这一幕的沉默是我们预想到的， Here the silence was planned, but usually they talked a lot.
但大多数时候他们说很多话。
你听了我的唱片"Top ten"了吗？
他们即兴表演，他们改动台词， They improvised.
改变台词的次序， They changed the text from one take to another.
有些场景无法进行剪辑。 The scenes were impossible to edit.
为此，我对每个场景单独进行录音。 So I shot each take of each scene with three 35mm sound cameras.
我用了三台用35mm胶片且带录音功能的摄影机。
有时，他们想摆成静物的姿势， Sometimes they agreed to pose like models.
这是在模仿毕加索的一幅画，是36年创作的一系列画作中的一副。 This is an exact copy of a drawing by Picasso
from a series he did in 1936.
而这一幕，是在模仿这一个系列中的另一幅画。 This is another one.
我让Shirley Clarke 出现在了影片中， I wanted to feature Shirley Clarke,
她是纽约的电影人，有一点像世界上的另一个我。 the New York filmmaker
who was, in a way, my double.
另一次演绎， Another tableau,
这一次模仿的是Magritte的画。 this one inspired by a Magritte painting.
我觉得这是幻想的报道，是乌托邦式的故事片。 I think of it as an imaginary news report, a utopian fiction.
这是产生于我在好莱坞的经历。 From my time in Hollywood.
实际上，是以我的方式进行的一次拼贴。 A collage, made my way.
十年后，一些名字被拼贴在墙上。 Ten years later, a collage of names on walls.
我为在我身边看到的东西而着迷， I was fascinated by what I saw.
那些巨大的壁画， Giant murals.
于是我开始收集关于它们的资料，我拍摄了一些照片。 I began documenting them in photographs.
大多数时候这些墙上的壁画/涂鸦并没有署名， You rarely know who made them. They're unsigned. I asked neighbours.
于是我去询问周围的邻居。
也有少数艺术家投身于壁画创作， Some fine arts graduates became muralists.
譬如Kent Twitchell For example, Kent Twitchell.
为了向画廊体系和金钱体系反抗。 It was a form of resistance against the art industry.
创作的理念是为了把图画免费呈现给所有人看。 The idea is art should be free for everyone.
在河的另一边，是洛杉矶东部， Beyond the river is East L.A., with its Chicano Art.
所见到的是奇卡诺 Chicano（墨西哥裔美国人） 艺术。
我拍摄了一些巨幅的壁画，其中有Willie Herron的。 I filmed large murals,
like those by Willie Herron.
与此同时，我也想拍摄一些电影的镜头。 But I also wanted to make cinema.
我生长在这个街区。
在墙壁上书写就像，一种生活方式。
这儿的每个人时不时就会在墙壁上写上自己的名字。
有一天晚上，我回家的时候
看到我弟弟躺在地上，在血泊里，
他那时才16岁。
他被一个敌对的团伙打死了。
他就躺在那儿，在血泊里面，
那伙人刚刚过了桥。
在我去医院的路上，
我收集了所有的画面，
还有在我脑海中闪现过的想法。
然后我决定
用我的方式进行复仇，
通过艺术的方式。
壁画，音乐，表演…
在我19岁的时候，
这是释放我内心压力
的另一种方式。
我真正认识到暴力
是在70年代初的时候，
我的很多朋友死了，这样的事到处在发生。
我选择用艺术的方式进行表达，
它就像一个不会终结的信息。
我常说，《墙的呢喃》拍摄的 I often say Murals Murals is a film about the extroverted Los Angeles.
是洛杉矶外向的一面：
人们通过墙壁上的涂鸦、壁画或是言语表达自我。 People express themselves through walls, clothing and words.
与此同时，我时常能感受到 But I also sense an introverted,
另一个洛杉矶，它是内向的，悲伤的，绝望的。 sad, desperate Los Angeles.
这是Emilie的故事，一个法国女人，在洛杉矶背井离乡， It's the story of Emilie, a French woman exiled in Los Angeles,
她带着孩子寻找一个住处， looking for a place to live with her son.
饰演Emilie的是Sabine Mamou，《墙的呢喃》的剪辑师。 Sabine Mamou, who edited Murals Murals, played Emilie.
This is your home.
她在片中的儿子由Mathieu Demy扮演。 注：Mathieu Demy是瓦尔达和雅克.德米的儿子。 Mathieu Demy played her son.
-你想说的是，我得睡这儿？ You mean I’ll be sleeping...
-我一个人睡吗？ -这样挺好的，你到时就知道了。 all alone?
You’ll be fine, you’ll see.
-如果我不开心，我们该怎么做？ If I don't like it, what'll we do?
-如果他不开心，我该怎么做？ If he doesn't like it, what'll I do?
-如果他们不开心，他们会做什么？ If they don't like it, what do they do?
-他们或是她们，会做什么呢？ He or she, what do they do?
Emilie感受到很强烈的孤独感，她刚经历了分别， She's extremely lonely, she's going through a separation.
但她不想和她的儿子多说这些。 But she doesn't want to discuss it with her son.
You don't confide in children.
所以我选择了 So I decided on a specific process for this film.
一种我为这部电影特定的一种方式来呈现，
用纪录片式的影像 I'd use documentary images to speak for her.
来替她说话，
于是就有了伴随着这些纪录片式的影像的独白。 Or she monologues over documentary images.
当 "汤碗", "桌子", "热情", "一起"这些词语消失时， When you lose words like tureen, ladle, table, warmth, togetherness,
只留下了“汤羹”、“孤独”、“分离”、“缺席”这些词语。 the only words left are soup,
solitude, separation, absence.
我积存了一些有疑问的镜头， I had accumulated images we wondered about.
因为作为一部电影来说，我们不是很确定我们会捕捉到什么， We didn't always know what we were capturing.
沉默或是言语，痛苦或是冷静， Silence or speech, pain or peace.
有一些我们拍摄了的镜头，我们不知道它们要表达什么。 Some sequences were mysteries to us.
举个例子，我们在海滩上， For example, we were on the beach
我们拍摄了Sabine和小男孩。 filming Sabine and the boy.
Lying on the sand
那时，有个女人躺在了沙滩上，在她肚子上有一本圣经， was a woman with a bible and two men on either side of her.
她的两侧跪坐着两个男人。
我让Sabine和小男孩走了过去， 小男孩问：“他们在做什么？”，Sabine回答说：“我不知道。” The boy asks Sabine about it.
而我们也不知道他们在干什么。 She has no answer. Neither did we.
也就是说，我们接受了拍摄一些我们无法理解的事情， We were open to filming things we didn't understand.
因为在电影中或是在别处， Because in cinema and elsewhere,
去感觉和感受是很重要的事。 it's important to feel, to experience.
-他们在干什么？她死了吗？ -不，我不知道。 What're they doing? Is she dead?
No. I don't know.
-为什么我们不多呆一会儿，多看一会儿。 Why didn't we stay to find out?
和Nurith Aviv一起带着摄影机 Nurith Aviv and I would go out evenings to capture images.
我们晚上出发去捕捉一些东西，
其中我印象最深刻的是， One image in particular struck me.
一个女人，在一家自助洗衣店里的， There was a woman doing her laundry in a laundromat.
在一家公共付费洗衣房里，
我们在外面，把车停在旁边，透过玻璃 We'd just parked the car. We filmed through the window.
拍摄她
她一个人 That lone woman fiddled with her greasy hair for a long time.
用手一直在摸她有些油的头发，持续了很久。
这个场景表现了一种特别的感官上的孤独。 An extraordinary moment of solitary sensuality.
影片中多次使用了作曲家Georges Delerue的音乐作为配乐， The film is greatly enhanced by Georges Delerue's music.
他在看了这部影片2-3遍以后即兴创作了配乐。 He watched it a few times
and improvised a score that is captivating, frail and subdued.
这个乐曲是动人、脆弱且温柔的，
它带给人一种柔和的痛苦。 Like a gentle ache.
同样也是Georges Delerue，在23年前， Georges Delerue also composed, 23 years earlier,
为短片《穆府的歌剧》作曲。 the music for this short film, Diary of a Pregnant Woman.
作为一部纪录片，它和我的个人生活有一些关联。 Like Documenteur,
this film was tied to my personal life.
那时我常去Mouffetard，我认识那条街的很多人。 I often went to Rue Mouffetard.
人们都相信这条街在中世纪时有一个集市， It was almost like the Middle Ages.
There was a market. I love markets.
我一直都很喜欢集市，
有流浪汉（没有住所的人）、 And there were poor people living on the streets.
老人、长着罗圈腿的人、在咖啡馆里的酒鬼。 Old folks, cripples
and drunkards.
事实上，那时我怀孕了。 I was pregnant.
我没有告诉别人我怀孕了，我拍摄一些 I didn't tell people, but I filmed a clear sign of pregnancy:
因怀孕产生的东西，也就是大肚子。
a big belly.
如何将一些自古以来就有的、基本的恐惧 And the way certain basic, ancestral fears
表现出来。 could be portrayed.
长时间我一直在思索这样一种基本的矛盾： I was utterly haunted by a fundamental contradiction.
当我们充满希望，想着给予 You're full of hope,
you're offering a life to a new child,
即将出生的孩子生命，他可能会幸福。
who might be happy.
与此同时，我看到的是一些非常... And yet, I saw a population
that was terribly,
极其... terribly... unhappy.
不幸的人，这令我想到，
They really inspired me to think.
他们也曾是新生儿， They too had been newborns.
也许在他们还小的时候， Maybe when they were wee babies, even if they were unwanted,
甚至是一些人们本不想要的孩子，我们仍会照顾他们，
someone cuddled them, stroked their belly, even a bit.
我们会爱抚他们，爱抚他们的小肚子，就算是一下下。
Some of them
《一些人》 他们曾是新生儿,
They were newborn babes
某个人，另一个人, 一些人... Someone, some other
some of them
某个人, 另一个人, 一些人...
我想所有人都有想要拍摄纪录片的念头。 Many of you want to make documentaries.
我觉得这很重要， I think it's very important...
即便这不能构成一个建议：当我们拍摄一些东西时， This isn't really advice,
but when you film something,
一个地点、一个景色、一些人， a place, a landscape,
a group of people,
在一开始我们只是有一个视角， you need a viewpoint. At least to start.
围绕着这个视角我们进行拍摄。 You film in relation to that viewpoint.
-这是说，把纪录片拍到镜头里? It's both a documentary and staged.
存在着两种类型的纪录片： There are two types of documentaries.
一种是纯粹的、未加工的、仅仅是呈现现实， Pure and raw, reality only.
有些杰出的纪录片是这样拍摄的； Those documentaries can be extraordinary.
而我，我希望它变成一部电影， But I want mine to be a film too.
所以，我很高兴说：“我们可以为拍摄它做准备。” I think it's fun to prepare a film
是为了在拍摄的现实场景的基础上加上一些自己的安排和组织。 with real reality, but also a twist.
I really love organising,
我很喜欢组织，并不是时时刻刻盯着镜头，
not the staging per Se,
而是对纪录片整体的安排。 but the general outline of a documentary.
在我刚开始制作电影时，我意识到这些现代的作曲家是我的“同伙”。 From the very start, I understood
that contemporary musicians were my allies.
我刚提到了Georges Delerue，我也想说一下Pierre Barbaud， I've mentioned Delerue.
There was also Pierre Barbaud, the composer for La Pointe Courte,
他为《短角情事》做了配乐。
我的首部电影， my first film,
拍摄于1954年 shot in 1954
在塞特（Sète）的一个街区。 in a neighbourhood of Sète.
在拍摄这部电影之前，我没有任何拍电影的经验， I made that film with no experience,
没有上过电影学校，也没有当过助理导演。 no film schooling,
no prior work as an assistant.
电影就这样产生了，我也不知道它是从哪里来的。 The film came out of nowhere.
在我的脑海中有一个特别的电影结构， I had a particular structure in mind.
计划把两部电影的内容 I wanted to combine two films with alternating chapters,
一章一章交替混合在一部电影里，
就像我读过的一本福克纳的小说那样 《野棕榈》这本书给我留下了很深的印象。 like a Faulkner book I admired, The Wild Palms.
一个关于渔夫的片段，紧接着，一个关于一对夫妇的片段。 I'd alternate fishermen sequences with couple sequences.
两段故事没有任何共同点。 Two stories with nothing in common
除了都是在短岬拍摄。 except the location.
这是私人生活和社会的对立。 It's a confrontation
between the private and the social.
-谨慎的男人， The labour representative
-只有船上有! is coming on the boat.
Don't talk about encounters.
简单来说，这就是两种理解世界的方式， It's a juxtaposition of two approaches to the world.
一种是特别细致的，有一些背景，一些对话； One very stylish,
with composition and dialogue.
-你的一举一动，我都了然于心。 I know your gestures.
-你的那些习惯变成了我的。 Your habits have become mine.
-不可能再有意料之外的事。 No more surprises.
另一种更像是 And one that looks more like Italian Neo-Realism.
意大利的新现实主义作品。即使当时我并没有看过这些电影。
Though I hadn't yet seen those films.
Alain Resnais （阿伦.雷乃）做了这部电影的剪辑，他教会了我很多。 Alain Resnais, who edited the film, taught me a lot.
那时我所做的一些事情（一些做法），后来没人再做了。 I did another thing that wasn't done.
通常来说，从听觉的角度来看，当人走远了以后， Usually sound diminishes as people move away.
声音也会变小。如果他们走得太远，我们几乎就听不到他们说什么。 It gets quieter until you barely hear them.
而我当时决定了让声音始于处于近景的位置。 I decreed that the sound would remain in the foreground.
当你看到他们说话，他们走向了池塘边， So as they talk and walk away,
就好像这是一个要结束了的对话， it feels like voiceover dialogue,
但它正在进行，因为他们确实在对话，完全是同步的， yet they're really talking.
It's synchronised.
但声音一直在前面。 But the sound stays up front.
-从前，我从没有这样的想法。你呢? I never used to have such thoughts. Did you?
-我，我总会看见别人（这样做）... I've always noticed others.
-但我不想在别的地方生活，除非和你一起。 But I don't want to live anywhere but with you.
-从Sète (塞特）到Sceaux（索镇公园），我们跳到其他的电影。 Let's leap from Sète to Sceaux.
是在Parc de sceaux(索镇公园)，产生了一个拍摄计划， In Sceaux Park, a project took shape with my friend Jane Birkin.
和我的朋友简·伯金(Jane Birkin)，
我们散着步，突然她说：“太糟糕了，我马上要40岁了。” We were walking and suddenly she said, "It's terrible, I'm almost 40."
我说：“你这么说太傻了，这个年纪好极了，” I said, "Don't be silly! It's a wonderful age.
“正是给你拍肖像的好时候。” Let's do your portrait."
就这样开始了这部电影的拍摄。 That's how it began.
我跟她提议...她是那么的有生命力和活力， I suggested to this lively, vivacious woman,
做一些与此相反的事，我希望她借此向一些已经逝去的女演员致敬， that we do the opposite of those tributes to dead actresses
我们将拍摄一些她们曾经拍摄过的电影片段，还有一些对话。 that compile excerpts from their films and interviews.
我跟她提议说：“我将会拍摄一些你原本并没有参演的电影里的片段，” I said we'd create excerpts of films she'd never made
“和一部分杜撰的对话。” and do pretend interviews.
我们推翻了演员需要遵守的准则：不能看摄影机， We reversed the golden rule about not breaking the fourth wall.
-你得看着摄影机，否则你看不见我。 You must look into the camera to look at me.
-我尽力... I'm trying!
-这样就好像我拍下了你的自画像。 It's like I'm filming your self-portrait.
-但你不会是独自一人出现在镜子里， You won't always be alone in the mirror.
-会有摄影机，是一小部分的我， There will be the camera, which is a bit me.
-我有时干脆会（直接）出现，在镜子或者（你的）视野里。 And it's OK if I sometimes appear in the mirror or in the background.
作为拍摄者和被拍摄者，我们的关系是共存的。 We were in it together. The filmmaker and the filmed.
对于画家和他的模特而言，也是这个道理。 The theme is painter and model.
这是一副出人意料的肖像， It's a surprise portrait of Jane in many roles,
Jane饰演了很多角色，包括她自己的。 -像我本身一样
including that of herself.
-穿着我的牛仔裤、旧套衫；不用管发型，穿着睡衣 With my jeans, old sweaters, messy hair, pajamas...
她适应了这个游戏。 她看上去很好笑、 She was a good sport.
陌生、高贵 She was funny, strange,
magnificent,
可怜。 poignant.
他们会喝（这些葡萄）制成的酒， 他们也会吃进去一点我丈夫（的骨灰）。 They can eat and drink a bit of my husband.
这是她第一次穿西班牙服饰，她讨厌这样。 It was her first time in a Spanish costume.
She hated it.
-而这也是我第一次敢把自己写的文章给别人看。 This is also the first time I've dared show my writing.
-是的，你给我看了。我读了你的文章。 Yes, you let me read it.
我觉得你写的很好。 I liked it, we'll use it.
我们把它拍成电影的片段。
-事实上，我们拍了一部完整的电影来讲述这个故事。 We ended up making a whole film to tell the story she wrote.
这是一个像我一样的女人。总之，就是我。 She's a woman like me. She is me.
她爱上了一个年纪很小的男孩。 She falls in love with a very young boy.
这是一个以悲剧收场的电影。 A love story with an unhappy ending.
-如果以我们家庭的形式来拍摄会很好。 It’d be nice to shoot the film as a family.
-我应该会来的。 I get your drift.
-你想让我儿子演你喜欢的那个男孩。 You want my son to play the boy.
-啊，是啊，当然了。 Yes, of course.
我们从没遇到过这种情况， This was a first.
我们中断了电影《千面珍宝金》(Jane B. par Agnès V.) 的拍摄， We interrupted Jane B. to make Kung Fu Master.
开始了《功夫大师》的拍摄，
和预想的一样，和Jane, 还有Mathieu一起。 Starring Jane as planned, and Mathieu as planned.
他们出演了这个爱情故事，但和Jane之前写的内容有些出入。 They played a love story
that was a bit different than Jane's, because now
因为在电影里，那个女人爱那个小男孩爱得很深，
the woman was in love with a boy
而他，则沉迷于一款电子游戏。 who was himself in love with a video game.
-这些刀可能会从高处或者地处被扔过来，所以就要蹲着或者跳起来。 They throw high or low. You gotta duck or jump.
这款游戏叫“功夫大师”。而这个小男孩想变成游戏大师。 The game was called Kung Fu Master.
And the boy wanted to master it.
-重重的打术师一下，干了他才能上去。 Knock out a big guy or wizard to go up.
-每次我们都要上五楼去，解救Sylvia。 You have to rescue Sylvia on the 5th floor.
我们在夏天拍摄，Mathieu那时和我在一起， We shot in summer.
I had Mathieu.
而Jane和她的两个女儿一起。 And Jane had her two girls.
我们都喜欢这样。 We liked that.
开学以后 When school started, we resumed Jane B.
我们重新开始了《千面珍宝金》(Jane B. par Agnès V.) 的拍摄
电影和绘画，我们玩转了两者之间的关系。 We played with cinema and painting.
-我不知道从什么时候开始， It's hard to pinpoint when you slipped
-我们从“特写”走向了“背景”， from close-ups to the background,
-直到画面的深处。 to the very back of the shot.
-这是在《着衣的马哈》这幅画里。 Here she is as La Maja Vestida
-在《裸体的马哈》里， and La Maja Desnuda.
-不高兴在《乌尔比诺的维纳斯》这幅画的背景里。 And vexed
in the background of Titian's Venus.
-鼠疫夺去了她的生命，还有衰老。 May the plague take her! And old age!
-她逐渐衰老... May she die, may she rot!
我们要从绘画的历史转向电影的历史。 Now we'll go from the History of Painting
to the History of Cinema.
人们很正式地 Cinema's 100th birthday was celebrated very officially.
庆祝电影诞生一百年。
有人请我拍一部电影来讲述这一百年的历史。 They asked me to make a film about the 100 years.
我想象出一位百岁老人。 I imagined a 100-year-old man.
这位先生叫作 A man whose name would be
“ Simon Cinéma” ，我这么说是因为， Simon Cinema. In French it sounds like "If my cinema."
我想“如果你不喜欢我的电影，那就去看别的。” 注：法语里"Simon Cinéma" 和"Si mon Cinéma"发音一样，后者是“如果我的电影”的意思。 "If my cinema isn't good, see another film."
所以，我给他取名“Simon Cinéma”。 So I called him Simon Cinema.
Cinéma（电影）先生 Monsieur Cinema,
由Michel Piccoli饰演， played by Michel Piccoli,
住在一座城堡里，周围像个电影博物馆。 lived in a castle that was like a film museum.
-夜幕降临，哀愁也随之而来。 Night is coming, and melancholy.
-来吧，今天你想说说谁？说些什么？ Come now. Who and what shall we talk about?
-雷诺阿（Renoir）? 1936年？ Renoir? The Popular Front?
-我想起了眼睛很大的人。 I was thinking of the fellow with the big eyes.
-谁？巴斯特·基顿 (Buster Keaton)？ Who? Buster Keaton?
-不，不是他，是布努埃尔(Buñuel)。 No, not Keaton today.
Buñuel. That eye he slashed in two.
-他的眼球被切成两半。
-有很多人来拜访Cinéma(电影)先生， Monsieur Cinema had visitors.
-你们两个人，Hanna Schygulla（汉娜·许古拉）和Jeanne Moreau（让娜·莫罗） Hanna Schygulla and Jeanne Moreau!
-在这部电影里，我和一些已经受到大众认可的演员们一起拍摄。 I worked with experienced actors here.
实际上他们让我感到有些惶恐。 They intimidate me.
在这部电影里，我尽力聚集了一些演员， For this film, I dared hire a number of stars.
以B开头的有Belmondo (贝尔蒙多)， B for Belmondo.
以D开头的有Depardieu(德帕迪约)， D for Depardieu.
Delon(阿兰·德龙)， D for Delon.
-我听说Cinéma(电影)先生身体不舒服。 I hear Monsieur Cinema has taken ill.
-还有以D开头的二人合作，两位著名演员， And D for duo. Two famous actors.
Deneuve (德纳芙 )和 De Niro (德尼罗) Deneuve and De Niro.
最终...独自一人。
-梦。 -这是一场梦。 A dream.
-对梦幻的恋人，一艘理想的游船. A dreamy couple, an idyllic cruise.
从现实和从技术的角度来看，海洋就是一个小木桶， In reality, on the technical side,
the ocean was a pond.
还有四十名技术人员用他们的技巧 And 40 technicians found a clever way
放置推轨摄影机的木板、 for us to do tracking shots with light stands,
灯光装置、分离幕布、轨道、放聚光灯的架子。
filter screens, rails and pillars for spotlights.
天气很热，我们买了太阳伞，还有20副连靴长裤。 It was very hot.
We'd bought sunshades and 20 rubber overalls.
给那些像是在"la nef des fous"这幅画里，沿着尼龙河拉船的奴隶的人。 注：荷兰画家Hieronymus Bosch的画作，英译名"Ship of Fools"。 The crew resembled slaves going down The Nile on a fool's arc.
De Niro(德尼罗)前一天夜里坐“协和式”飞机来这里拍摄， De Niro flew in on the Concorde the day before.
他说他提前三天开始早晨四点起床， He said he rose at 4 a.m. for 3 days,
为了提前适应时差和确保拍摄的过程中状态良好。 to beat the jet lag in advance
and be in good shape for the shoot.
拍摄仅仅进行了一天，第二天早晨他就离开了。 A one-day shoot.
He had to leave the next morning.
早晨四点起床这一行为，真的很专业，这给我们留下了深刻的印象。 Getting up at 4 a.m.
was so professional. We were impressed.
他希望拍摄顺利，在船上，戴着蝴蝶结，用法语。 He was willing to shoot in a boat, in a bowtie
and in French.
他用整个上午学会了对白的法语发音，让他重复对白很搞笑。 He learned his lines phonetically all morning.
It was fun rehearsing with him.
-亲爱的，你记得把煤气关了没，把蛋黄酱放进冰箱里了没？ Honey, did you turn off the gas,
change the cat litter and put the mayo in the fridge?
-不错。 Not bad!
我可以吹嘘说，我把德纳芙和德尼罗聚集在了一艘船上、一部电影里， I can brag
about getting Deneuve and De Niro in a boat and in a film.
我也可以自豪地说，我在剧本里把德尼罗写掉进了水里。 I can brag about writing a scene where De Niro falls in the water.
但掉进水里的是个替身。 But that was a stunt double.
而我的胶片也掉进了水里，这真是一场灾难。 The film took a dive too.
A box office disaster.
我因此再也没有用35mm和16mm的胶片拍过故事片。 I didn't make another fiction film in 35mm
or 16mm.
在20世纪结束之前，一直如此。 Through to the end of the century.
但我曾经用它们拍过一些电影， But I'd made a few films.
它们被观众欣赏和喜爱着，几乎在世界上的各个角落， They are appreciated and loved around the world.
我的电影被爱环绕着。 My films are covered in affection.
记得看，听讲座的第二部分， Freeze frame.
你们会看到，在21世纪，我重新创造了我的工作。 Let's talk photos, with a return to the 1950s and picture cameras.
在我人生的第一阶段，我是一名摄影师 I was a photographer in my first life.
我要做的只是展现 I'll be brief about it.
有些人还记得（我拍的）杰拉·菲利浦的照片 Some remember
my photographs of Gérard Philippe
有让·维拉尔的照片，有在阿维尼翁戏剧节拍的 and Jean Vilar
at the Avignon Festival
还有在法国国家人民剧院拍的 人们现在还会跟我说起这些照片 and the TNP. People still talk about them.
就是从1950年开始，我开始拍一些剧院的照片 Back then, in 1950, I began photographing theatre.
为了记录一些在法国国家人民剧院的演出瞬间 To document elements of staging and performance,
但主要是为了创作出 and also, in particular, to create images to represent each play.
一些可以代表每场戏剧演出的照片
例如 For example,
“洪堡王子”，军人，梦想家，在室外拍摄，在阳光正好的时候进行 The Prince of Homburg.
Officer, dreamer.
Shot outside in bright sunlight.
为《麦克白》里这对被诅咒的夫妇制作了一对圆形皇冠
注：《麦克白》，莎士比亚所作的悲剧 In profile,
the star-crossed lovers of Macbeth,
维拉尔和卡萨雷斯 Vilar and Casarès.
《愚比王》，在巴黎游荡，“蓝角，烂腿，牛头！”
注：《愚比王》为Alfred Jarry的剧作，后面那句话出自剧本， 愚比爸用于咒骂的台词（原句本身有语病。） And King Ubu, on a jaunt in Paris.
"Blue corn! Ham of God! Head of Cow!"
一些作为《勇气妈妈》化妆间的旅行篷车
注：德国戏剧家Bertolt Brecht的剧作 全名《勇气妈妈和她的孩子们》（Mère Courage et ses enfants） Caravans as dressing rooms for Mother Courage.
在教皇宫临时搭建的演员化妆室，
注：教皇宫位于南法小城阿维尼翁，《吝啬鬼》是莫里哀的剧作 And in a makeshift dressing room at the Papal Palace,
维拉尔，一个人，表演完《吝啬鬼》之后的样子 Vilar alone, after playing The Miser.
萨尔瓦多·达利，在卡达克斯 Salvador Dalí in Cadaqués.
布拉塞（匈牙利-法国摄影师）, 在费马路上 Brassaï on Rue Fermat.
欧仁·尤内斯库（法国荒诞派戏剧代表人物） 和他有三个鼻子的未婚妻（戏剧剧本Jacques ou la Soumission中的人物） Eugène Ionesco with his three-nosed fiancée.
皮埃尔·塞克利（匈牙利雕塑家）和他的女儿 Pierre Székely and his daughter.
西蒙·韩泰（画家) 和他的妻子、女儿 Simon Hantaï with his wife and son.
还有马里奥·普拉西诺斯（法国画家） And Mario Prassinos.
这是考尔德（美国雕塑家） 在巴黎十四区的一条路上 Calder in the 14th arrondissement.
一些电影人：维斯孔蒂... A few filmmakers: Visconti,
费里尼... Fellini,
德米 Demy.
雅克·德米 Jacques Demy.
一些著名女演员的肖像： Portraits of famous actresses:
阿努克·艾梅... Anouk Aimée,
凯瑟琳·德纳芙... Catherine Deneuve
还有让娜·莫罗 and Jeanne Moreau.
还有著名的“独裁者”，菲德尔·卡斯特罗和他的石头翅膀
注：“lider maximo” 是法国媒体给卡斯特罗的别称，意指“独裁者” And the famous Líder Máximo, Fidel Castro,
with his wings of stone.
但也有一些邻居： But also neighbours:
咪咪和她妈妈... Mimi and her mother,
调料商人 布克拉... Boukkra the grocer.
一些朋友...伊戈尔，我的哥哥，让 And friends:
Igor, my brother Jean,
还有里努 Linou
和维罗尼卡 and Véronique.
偶然造就了一些拍摄场景，在（由勒·柯布西耶设计的）马赛公寓大楼的露台上 Chance provided the staging
on Corbusier's terrace in Marseille.
这是一些与我擦肩而过的人 These are people seen at random
被我在恰好的时机捕捉到： and caught at the right time.
一个路过的葡萄牙女人... A Portuguese woman passing.
一个采盐人，盐和一个虔诚的女人 A salt maker, some salt
and a pious woman.
围在马戏团旁边的人们 People outside a circus.
我喜欢拍一些组合而成的照片 I liked to do composed photographs.
也喜欢给一群人拍照 阿尔登省的一家人... Groups too.
A family in the Ardennes.
沈阳的小学生们 School girls in Mukden.
中国是很遥远的 在那里我曾被打动 China was so far away.
I felt emotions there.
和孩子们一起... With children.
一个小女孩拿着一朵花... A little girl with a flower.
远处是拄着拐杖的老婆婆 The old woman in the back has mangled feet.
一个小男孩 A little boy.
一些工人或者囚徒从他身边走过 Workers, or prisoners, pass nearby.
还有一个非常感人的画面： And a moving landscape.
一个石林，但有两个生命，一匹小马和一个挑水的男人 A petrified forest with two living beings:
a small horse and a man bearing water.
我将用一些我的自画像结束这个“序曲” ： I'll sign off this prelude with some self-portraits.
一张，是我20岁的时候 In this one, I was 20.
那时我是多么喜欢马赛克啊！ How I loved mosaics!
另一张，36岁 In this one, I was 36.
角落里，右边是真蒂莱·贝利尼的一副巨幅画 Standing on the right of a huge painting by Gentile Bellini.
我是如此地喜爱绘画啊！ How I loved paintings!
而这是我80岁的时候 And here I am at 80.
我可以说，我知道从一个世纪通往另一个世纪的通道 I experienced the passage from one century to another.
当人们宣布2000年的到来时，有各种各样的谣言： As the year 2000 approached, there were many rumours.
世界末日即将到来，会有个世界性的程序错误，一切都会被炸毁 It'd be the end of the world.
A computer bug of epic proportions would blow everything up.
事实上, 20世纪最后的夜晚，人们用千百种方式庆祝，既焦虑又疯狂 In reality, that New Year's Eve
was celebrated a thousand ways, from anxiety to exaltation.
但第二天早上，21世纪的第一天，一切都很平静 But on the first morning of the 21st century, all was calm.
The new century brought change.
对我来说，在这个世纪初
有一个变化，有一些新的东西 Something new for me as a filmmaker.
在我的电影生涯里，是小型摄影机，小型数码摄影机
Small cameras. Digital cameras.
这对我来说是一个机会 They gave me an opportunity
用另一种方式拍摄，做一些别的事 to work in a different way.
这些新款的小型摄像机，它们是数码的 These new cameras are digital
奇妙的，它们支持频闪效果 and fantastic. They can be stroboscopic,
自恋效果，甚至“超级写实主义”的效果 narcissistic,
even photorealistic.
我可以做一些更加个性化，更私密的事情 I could do more personal, intimate work.
总之，自由地拍摄纪录片 I could make documentaries freely.
我想再说说我在讲座的第一部分里提到过的三个词 I'd like to return to three words I mentioned in my first chat.
这些指引着我的词语是：“灵感”，“创作”，“分享” Words that guide me. Inspiration, creation, sharing.
我想再说一下灵感 I'd like to discuss inspiration again.
因为它本就够奇怪了 It's quite curious.
但有时它就出现了 Sometimes it happens,
并且源自现实本身 and it comes straight out of reality.
我在... I was at a café on Blvd. Edgar Quinet.
埃德加·基内大道上，在一家咖啡馆里
是集市快结束的时候，集市每周三和周六会有 The market was just finishing.
然后我看到那些卖东西的人开始把他们的盒子 I saw vendors loading their crates,
他们的篮子，他们的箱子放到卡车上 baskets and cash boxes into their trucks.
有一些市镇请的工作人员拿着他们的塑料扫帚等着（打扫） City cleaners were waiting with their green plastic brooms.
然后我看到有些人来了 And people began to come.
一些人弯腰开始拾取他们能找到的东西 They bent down and picked up what they could find.
而我脑海中有个挥之不去的句子： A phrase took root in my mind.
“他们将要拾取并且食用我们丢弃的东西” "They pick up and eat what we throw away."
然后我感觉这个句子本身就是一个主题 The phrase felt like a subject in itself.
应该拍摄一部纪录片 我一定要做这件事 I absolutely had to make a documentary.
如果拾穗是属于另一个时代的 Gleaning may be extinct, but stooping has not vanished
这个动作在我们可以吃得很饱的社会里并没有改变
from our sated society.
农村或是城市里的拾取者，他们为了拾取弯着腰 Urban and rural gleaners all stoop to pick up.
这并不是羞耻的事 有的只是一些不安 一些慌乱 There's no shame, only worry and distress.
就是在那儿，小摄影机真的发挥作用了 Those small cameras really played a role here.
因为它们让...它们让我得以接近这些处于不稳定的状态的人 They allowed me to approach people who'd fallen on hard times
这些人绝对无法忍受一个扛着摄影机的人 and would've been uncomfortable with a cameraman,
一个录音师举着麦克风杆，戴着鸭舌帽或者墨镜的助手们 a sound guy with a boom,
assistants in caps and sunglasses...
那样左右拍摄 All the clichés of a film shoot.
我在那儿用我的小摄影机，体积还没相机大，因此我不会吓到他们 It was just me and my little camera, like a picture camera.
I didn't frighten them.
而我不会让任何人感到害怕 I intimidated no one.
这持续很久了，一直以来就是这样 I never have.
就这样 它使得我认识了一些人 我下面要说的是阿兰 It gave me a chance to meet people. I'll tell you about Alain.
我注意到一个男人，背着一个大包，原地吃东西 I see a man with a large bag eating on the spot.
时不时，我又看见他，一如既往背着他的大包，一如既往地吃着东西 I’d see him now and then, always with his bag,
always eating.
有一天，他吃了芹菜，我走近了他 The day he was eating parsley
I approached him.
你吃很多芹菜吗? Are you a big parsley eater?
有时候，是的，因为芹菜，它很好 Sometimes. It's good for you.
有维他命C, 维他命E，β胡萝卜素，锌，镁...太好了 Full of vitamin C and E, beta carotene, zinc, magnesium.
It's excellent.
他的回答让我感到震惊 His answer amazed me.
在接下来的几星期里，我拍摄了他很多次，包括周围的一切 Over the following weeks I filmed him often,
with or without sound,
而他和我交谈，三言两语地说着 and he talked to me in snatches.
我吃很多水果 我喜欢苹果 因此 没有任何问题 I eat a lot of fruit. I love apples. They're easy.
我在苹果里找到了我所需要的东西 I find all the apples I want.
你每天吃几个苹果？ How many do you eat a day?
每天六个或者七个 6 or 7.
这是你的主食吗？ Is it your staple diet?
我也吃面包 I also eat bread.
我有很多次机会和他交谈 I talked to him a number of times.
并且我得知了，一个生物学专业的学生，为何 I learned how he went from studying biology
处于这么困难和卑微的处境 to living in this difficult, humble situation.
我主要想拍摄的是乡间的拾取 I was also keen to explore agricultural gleaning.
我们知道这是指在收获以后拾取 Gleaning in the fields after the harvest.
因此需要快点拍摄，因为... We had to shoot quickly.
譬如说，土豆的收获时节，还有季节 It was potato season.
Seasons don't wait on cinema's unpredictable schedules.
不会等待电影的时间，后者是多变的
因此，我在一家土豆合作社里做调查 So I contacted a potato cooperative.
在合作社里，我看到了一些拾取者 I saw the gleaners and went to the cooperative.
在大卖场里，结实的土豆块 In supermarkets, firm ones are sold
以2,5公斤，5公斤为规格，被分装在盒子里销售 in containers of 2. 5 or 5 kilos.
而这些盒子要求土豆尺寸非常精准 They have to be a specific calibre.
从做生意的角度来说，我们卖土豆 For the stores, we sell potatoes
45mm到75mm的土豆 ranging in size from 45 to 75 millimetres.
All the rest are automatically discarded.
所有剩下的，超过这个尺寸的自然而然就被丢弃了
我们丢弃所有的“超规土豆”， We reject outsized ones, green ones,
发绿了的，僵硬的，被机器切割了的，凹凸不平的 stones and cut
or damaged ones.
至于那些“尺寸不合格”的土豆，它们被丢弃在了田野里 The non-standard potatoes are left in the fields.
看，我带着30公斤土豆走了 Off I go with my 30 kilos.
而且后面还有好几吨，别人可以过来捡 There are several tonnes left.
People could take some, if they knew about it.
但他们并不知道它们在哪里
就是这样 There you go.
而那儿，有人一定是提前收到过通知的 There's someone who must have been tipped off.
在这些剩下的土豆里，我们会发现一些特别大的， Among the rejects, we find huge ones.
看...
-有的还有形状，心形的 -心形的，我想要 And heart-shaped ones.
The heart, I want the heart!
真是个惊喜啊 What a surprise!
我很开心 I was happy.
我立刻就凑近拍摄了它们 I filmed them up close.
我带了一些回家 And brought some home.
当我们拍摄一部纪录片时，即使主题是确定的 Even with a documentary on a specific subject,
我们所拍摄的东西会指引我们想要做什么 you are guided by what you film.
爱心 是一个形状 代表着温柔 代表着爱 Hearts speak of tenderness, love.
而令人印象深刻的是，无疑 It was powerful.
We couldn't help but think about it.
我们想到它 然后必然也会...
它会促使我们用爱去接近拾取者们 It inspired us to approach the gleaners with affection.
另外，这些心形土豆也带给了我灵感 And those heart-shaped potatoes inspired me.
我等待它们变老 I let them age,
等待它们发芽 sprout
等待它们皱缩 and shrivel up.
然后，尽管如此 Despite it all,
它们通过胚芽和须根有了新的生命 they found new life as sprouts
and roots.
就在那时，汉斯-乌尔里希·奥布里斯特进入了我的生活 That's when Hans Ulrich Obrist came into my life.
2003年的威尼斯双年展有一个环节， He had a section in the 2003 Venice Biennial.
2003年
他组织了一个团体，叫乌托邦车站 He created a group
called Utopia Station.
因此，每个人都需要制作 Everyone did a poster and an installation.
一张海报和一个装置
我给自己做了一件土豆服 I had a potato costume made for me
为了宣传我的装置“土豆乌托邦” to promote my installation Patatutopia.
地上有700千克土豆 There were 700 kilos of potatoes on the floor.
这是第一次我在三面屏幕上做展示 It was the first time I exposed on three screens.
而我很喜欢这样 I loved it.
因为我可以把正在呼吸的心形土豆放在中间 In the centre, I put breathing, heart-shaped spuds.
而在两边，一些须根，一些胚芽 And on either side, I put roots
and sprouts.
而透过这个关于“腐烂物”的作品 This work of rot marked my entry
我进入了视觉艺术家们的行列 into the group of artists known as visual artists.
我一点都不喜欢人们说“造型艺术家”这个词
注：plasticien 也有塑料工人的意思 The French call artists plasticiens. We don't make plastic!
给人感觉我们是生产塑料的
我更喜欢英语里的说法“视觉艺术家” I prefer the English term: visual artist.
我真的很喜欢提供一种更复杂的，不局限于观看的方式 I really enjoyed proposing
a more complex way of seeing.
而这也是向15世纪 It was also a nod to 15th and 16th century triptychs,
和16世纪的三折画的一次致敬，我很喜欢三折画
which I love.
我见过的有一些三折画可以让人产生一些特别的情感 Some of them evoke special emotions.
然后我心想：“我是否也能做” I wanted to do something along the lines of those triptychs of interior scenes.
“一些和三折画一样的东西，让我们能看到画面里的场景”
因此，我创造出了《努瓦穆捷的三折画 》 So I made The Triptych of Noirmoutier. Very simple. In a kitchen.
很简单，就在一间厨房里
男人喝着啤酒，而他年迈的母亲 The man drinks his beer,
while his elderly mother untangles a string
在解开一团缠在一起的毛线绳，而他妻子在削土豆
and his wife peels potatoes.
因为我一直都有一些疑问 I've always had questions like:
譬如，当我们看见一张瞬间拍摄的照片时，这之前和之后发生了什么呢？
What happens before and after a snapshot?
或者在电影院，当电影放映时，会产生什么呢？ Or in a film: What happens when they exit the frame?
这一次，我用两边的百叶窗来诠释视野之外的东西 Here, I used side panels
to show what's off-screen.
为拓展视觉范围，我提供了一些解答 I proposed answers to our desire to enlarge the frame.
观众可以自己选择 看或是不看 在墙壁之后的东西 Visitors choose to see, or not, what lies beyond the walls.
有一些回应，一些反响，有很多观众 Many visitors came, responded and reacted.
纽约现代艺术博物馆取得了三套装置中的一套 MoMA in New York acquired one of the 3 copies.
而从那时起，有创造力的馆长，埃尔维·尚戴斯 And since then, Hervé Chandès,
the inventive Director of this place,
他是卡地亚当代艺术基金会的馆长，也就是我们所在的地方，就是这位埃尔维·尚戴斯 the Cartier Foundation for Contemporary Art,
purchased the second copy of the triptych.
买了第二套三折画的装置
是时候请他参与到我的座谈中来了 The time has come to ask him to join our chat.
晚上好 Good evening.
晚上好 阿涅斯 大家晚上好 Good evening Agnès, everyone.
而在你邀请我以后，我们就见面了 We met when you invited me.
我在威尼斯的展览上看到你了 I'd seen the expo in Venice.
然后有一天，我给你打了电话，那是在2005年 Then one day I called you, in 2005.
然后，在Martine Aboucaya美术馆的展览，那时候开始得很快，我们一起去看了 The expo at Martine Aboucaya's gallery came soon after.
We went to it together.
就是在那儿我发现了《努瓦穆捷的三折画》，还有《努瓦穆捷的寡妇们》 That's where I discovered The Triptych of Noirmoutier
and The Widows of Noirmoutier.
然后你邀请了我，你给我提供了这个超棒的场地 So you invited me and offered me that incredible space.
我既开心又兴奋，可以拥有这个场地，是这样的 I was so excited to have so much space.
因为我集中了我所有的想法，所有的提议 All my ideas and propositions were based
关于努瓦捷穆岛的（想法和提议），在那里我和雅克·德米居住了很久 on the Ile of Noirmoutier, where I'd lived with Jacques Demy.
然后我创造了这个有双重含义的标题： I made up a title with two meanings,
《岛屿和她》，那是在2006年
注：île和il, “他”同音 L'Ile et Elle.
That was in 2006.
我们知道桥造好之前 Before they built the bridge,
要去岛上只能 you could only get to the island
通过Gois公路，在落潮的时候可以通过 by the Gois highway at low tide.
这些告示牌精确地标出了 Signs indicated the exact times of the tides
海潮的时间和可通过的时间
and access to the island.
因此，我想要做一个限制观众的东西 Visitors had to go through a filter.
我们做了一根栏杆 We built a barrier.
需要等落潮才能进入展厅 They had to wait for low tide to go in.
这个主意挺不错的 A clever idea.
而在帘幕上 On a factory curtain of heavy plastic slats,
大片的塑料帘幕上，投映着工厂，我们看到海潮落下
you watched the tide go down.
然后，看，栏杆抬起来了 Then the barrier lifted.
观众可以进岛了 You entered the island
也可以进入我的世界： and my world.
“巨大的明信片” The big postcard.
贴满了肖像的房间 The portrait shack.
女人的... Women.
男人的 Men.
我利用了这个空间的尺寸和灯光 I took advantage of the dimensions and light
在这个由让·努维尔设计的建筑的大展厅里 in that big space designed by Jean Nouvel
而我也在那里建造了我的第一间电影小屋 to make my first cinema shack.
用我的电影胶片副本建造的小屋 Made with the footage of a film.
在Christophe Vallaux的钢结构之上 On a metal structure by Christophe Vallaux,
我们放置了3500米的一个标准胶片副本，一共9卷 we mounted the 3,500 metres of a standard copy in 9 reels.
并且为了建造屋顶，我们甚至还加了1或者2卷 We even added a couple reels to finish the roof.
对观众说，演技好和好看的电影演员们，凯瑟琳·德纳芙和米歇尔·皮科利 For visitors,
the film's good and beautiful actors
Catherine Deneuve and Michel Piccoli,
突然间离得很近 were now up close.
一些特写镜头 The close-ups
还有透过胶片的光线，这是另一种制作电影的方式 and the light passing through the film
create a new form of cinema.
让我们稍微回顾一下 Let's rewind a bit.
我们这些电影人，曾经经历过用35毫米的银色胶片时代 We filmmakers used to work with 35mm film.
我们在剪辑的时候触碰它们，我们把它们组装在一起... We handled it during editing, assembled it.
我们用盒子运输它们...然后就是在放映室和电影院里发生的那些事了 We transported reels in canisters.
And it all ended up
in cinema projection booths.
放映的工作过程完全消失了 Film projection has disappeared
得益于数码文件的出现 in favour of digital files.
然后我们发现很多成箱成卷的胶片 We found ourselves with hundreds of reels
闲置在架子上，地下室里 stagnating on shelves,
在放映室里，还有在仓库里 in basements, projection booths
and stockrooms.
我们用了我的电影《幸福》的胶片 We used the reels of my film Happiness
在2008年，建造 to build, in 2018,
我的三号小屋，在Obadia美术馆里 my third cinema shack in the Galerie Obadia.
对于那些了解这部电影的人，他们能直接联想到片头 For those who know the film,
this is a reference to the opening credits.
让.克洛德.德鲁奥，他的妻子和孩子们 Jean-Claude Drouot,
his wife and his children,
电影里真实的人物，从很远的地方走来，很模糊 the film's characters,
arrive blurry in the background.
在近景处，是长满向日葵的田野 In the foreground is a field of sunflowers.
我用它们做了一些发光的展示盒 I made light boxes
透过它们，我们可以在近处看到电影原本的胶片， for close-ups of the film strips,
和胶片两边给放映员用的齿孔 with their projector perforations and optical soundtrack.
还有肉眼可以看到的声音和配乐留下的痕迹
看 那个 这是拱门 So, this is the archway.
用盒子做成的拱门，铁盒子 The archway of canisters.
The metal canisters that contain films.
（我们用它们）装过电影胶卷，也就是说，有装在里面的东西和容器
We have the contents and the containers.
-这些盒子是空的？ - 对啊 因为它们装的那些胶卷 The canisters are empty?
Yes. Their contents
被用来造小屋了 were used to make the shack.
-实际上，你在回收利用 -一直都是 You're recycling.
Always.
从《拾穗者》这部电影起，一直都是 Ever since The Gleaners, whose theme
在这部电影里，这个主题真正被拾取者他们自己提出来了 was suggested by the gleaners themselves,
我对这个很感兴趣，我意识到 I've been interested in it.
And I've learned that recycling brings joy.
回收利用这件事本身令人快乐
我们感觉这些东西没有被丢弃 没有被浪费 We feel things aren't lost.
尤其是这些现在已经无法使用了的这些盒子 By taking these unusable canisters
同样这些没用了的胶片，用“艺术的形式”重新利用它们，我想说 and that unusable film
and recycling them artistically, so to speak,
我们给了它们另一次生命，它们没有被丢弃 它们变成了别的东西 we give them new life.
It's not wasted. It comes back.
什么都没有失去，什么也都没有被创造，所有的一切只是在改变 Nothing is lost. Everything transforms.
通过创作，通过想象改变 It transforms through creation and imagination.
在胶片小屋的同一层，我做了一个全塑料的装置 On the same floor,
I did an installation all in plastic.
在你相对比较严肃的作品里，阿涅斯，这个就比较搞笑了 Your work is fairly serious, but this is funny.
充气垫，救生圈，这是童年，是假日 Blowup mattresses, swim rings... It's childhood, summertime.
我们知道塑料对地球来说是一场灾难 Today we know plastic is a scourge on the planet.
然而，我很喜欢这些彩色的原料 And yet, how I loved that colourful stuff,
便宜，而时常又好玩 so cheap and so funny.
一双3欧的塑料拖鞋，这是消费社会的成功 A 3-euro pair of thongs
is a triumph of consumer society!
我想穿着它组织一场派对 I wanted to celebrate it.
对我来说，颜色，会舞动 To me, colour dances.
它在我的脑海里跳舞 是夏天 It dances in my head. It's summer.
有两样东西促使我做了这个展览 Two things motivated me to do this.
想要沉浸在这些颜色里的想法，沉浸在所有的颜色里 A desire to throw myself into colour.
还有声音也给了我灵感： And the sound of it inspired me too.
乒乓，拖鞋，露营 Ping Pong, Thongs and Camping.
Bernard Lubat（钢琴家） 在一张乒乓球桌上即兴创作了音乐 Bernard Lubat improvised music on a pulsating table.
这是一首乒乓球协奏曲 A ping pong concerto.
从无忧无虑的童年，我们转向一个感人的作品 From the carefree world of childhood, we went to a moving, solemn work:
非常沉重的作品
《努瓦穆捷的寡妇们》 The Widows of Noirmoutier.
在那座岛上有很多寡妇 There are many on the island.
我经常去那里，而我也是寡妇 I went there often.
I'm a widow too.
我感觉自己离她们很近 I felt close to them.
我试着问她们是否愿意让我拍摄她们 I began by asking if they'd mind if I filmed them.
挨个问她们 我几乎总是独自一个人去 偶尔会有别人 One-on-one. I was usually alone.
而她们对我... And they trusted me, because...
她们信任我，因为
她们觉得 they felt they could share their distress with me.
她们可以向我倾诉她们的不安 因此
我选择在一个特别的空间里 用一个装置 I arranged the space in a particular way,
在屏幕上 是多折画屏的影像 creating a polyptych screen.
就好像扬·冯凯塞尔的画，它把这个形式用于系列作品《四大洲》 Like the one by Jan van Kessel of the four continents.
中间有一个屏幕，（放映）由埃里克·高蒂尔用35毫米的胶片拍摄的影像 There was a central film, shot by Eric Gauthier in 35mm.
海滩上有一张桌子，寡妇们绕着桌子转圈 It showed a table on a beach,
and widows walking around it.
在这个影像周边，有14个小屏影像 That image was surrounded by 14 small video screens.
并且在展厅里有14张椅子，在每张椅子上， There were 14 chairs in the room.
有耳机供观众倾听这些寡妇中一位诉说 Each chair had headphones,
to listen to one of the widows.
我有时候听到有些人说他们 Some people say they speak to their dead.
（他们）和去世了的人交谈 并且能得到回应 不 我不能 不是这样
I don't do that.
不
我跟孩子们说的是：“爸爸，他离开13年了，但我可以这么跟你说” As I tell my kids, Dad left 13 years ago but I can tell you...
“一切都好像恍如昨日” it still feels like yesterday.
尤其是晚上 Especially at night.
但白天，当然，我们依旧还是会有一些小事要操心 During the day, things keep you occupied.
但晚上，是这样的，你发现自己孤身一人 But at night you’re all alone.
那时，你会加倍想念 You think twice as much.
所以，缺失，缺失的是触碰，这是（我）缺失了的东西... What I miss is touching him...
此刻，如果你在家，还有很多蒂埃里的存在 Pour l'instant, si tu est à la maison，il y a encore pleine de la présence de Thierry, The house is still filled with his presence.
他的气味...他的... His smell, his...
两天前，我们吃了，他在集市上买的绿豆，它们还... Two days ago we ate green beans he bought at the market.
还很新鲜 It's still so new.
这对我来说很有趣，因为我，我习惯了 That project really interested me.
I was used to one screen,
所有人都看着屏幕上一样的东西，就像今晚这样 where everyone watches the same thing.
对我来说，改变和观众之间的关系，这很有趣 I wanted to modify the audience's experience.
也就是说，你看到14个人
There, you had just 14 people listening to one widow each.
他们可以各自倾听一个寡妇诉说，但他们坐在一起
But they were together in the room.
这是一种把私密和集体结合起来的方式 It made the experience both intimate and collective.
每个寡妇向一个人诉说这件事 Having each widow speak to one person
使得，当这个作品去了别的地方 meant that when the installation travelled,
我们显然不能翻译它，不能配字幕 we obviously couldn't subtitle it.
因为这会打破这件事的私密性 We'd lose the confidentiality.
因此，需要配音 So we dubbed it.
因此，我们给“寡妇们”做了配音 We dubbed the widows
用瑞典语 in Swedish,
当然也有英语 in English of course,
用西班牙语 in Spanish,
甚至用中文 and even in Chinese.
我们的感情很好 We loved each other so much...
有一刻我对自己说
有些事情有点不对劲
我打电话给孩子们说，听着 ，肯定的...
对我来说是多么与众不同的经历啊 It was so amazing for me
可以看到努瓦穆捷的女士们的话语 to see the Noirmoutier widows' words
在离她们家那么遥远的地方，找到了一个倾听者 finding listeners so far from home.
这是很动人的，怎样将某些 It's striking to see how something so local,
原本只属于某些地方的东西，就好像是一个故事
一个人在努瓦穆捷的故事变成 like these stories from Noirmoutier,
can be so universal.
完完全全世界性的，无论是
在中国，在阿根廷，或是其他地方 In China, Argentina or elsewhere.
这给予了我，对于艺术极大的信心，这个伟大的词“艺术” It gave me great confidence in art in the grand sense.
因为 Because art
正是艺术使得
艺术是一种可以穿越 moves across cultures,
不同的文化背景
不同的国家，民族，宗教信仰，年龄（的东西） countries, nationalities, religions
and ages.
既然我们说到了年龄，我想要说说我自己的年龄 Speaking of ages, let's talk mine.
我刚过完90岁生日，我毫不在意 I just passed 90 and I don't care.
但十年前 But 10 years ago,
当我想到我马上要80岁了，我没有感到恐慌 when I was about to turn 80, I panicked.
我发现80这个数字 The number 80
就好像它 felt like the front of a train barreling toward me.
在一列火车前，向我飞驰而来
我该做点什么 I had to finish something by the time I was 80.
以此来结束我的80岁
因此我 So I plunged into a film project.
这样开始了一部电影
并且我可以说 I went into it feeling I had to get it done quick.
对我自己说：“得快点拍”
但，这是一种自画像 It would be a self-portrait, a story of my journey.
对我的经历的一段叙述
如果说，我选择了《阿涅斯的海滩》作为片名 I called it The Beaches of Agnès
这就好像是巧合 because I've always lived near beaches.
我自出生以来一直离海很近
在我小时候，在比利时 I grew up in Belgium near the northern beaches.
是在北海(大西洋)的海滩上
然后 After the bombings and the fall of France
在（二战的）空袭中
我们不得已去了塞特 那儿在是地中海边上 we fled to Sète on the Mediterranean.
雅克让我认识了大西洋 Jacques introduced me to the Atlantic.
并且我和他一起，去了洛杉矶 In Los Angeles, we discovered the Pacific.
那儿是太平洋
我们感觉我们看遍了所有的海 We felt we'd seen all the seas.
因为我和雅克.德米（在达盖尔路上）住了很久 Jacques and I lived for a long time
在达盖尔路上，为了论证片名 on Rue Daguerre. So to justify the title of the film, we made a beach outside my house
《海滩》
我们在达盖尔路上做了一个沙滩
在房子前，在办公室前 and office.
Tamaris电影公司，我听着... Ciné Tamaris.
对，你想和希希利亚说话？别挂电话，我把电话给她 You want Cecilia Rose? One moment.
对，是为了出租《驴皮公主》
注：《驴皮公主》（1970）雅克·德米导演的电影 They want to rent Donkey Skin.
阿涅斯！阿涅斯！ I’ll pass you Agnès.
Me first!
喂？对，别挂断，我很快就回来 Please hold, I’ll get back to you.
杯子里没有茶了 I'm out of tea!
这个预算表在哪里？ Got the estimate?
我从没拿过 Not yet. Not yet!
这很不错，在房子前面的一片沙滩 Beachfront houses are nice.
而尤其是达盖尔路的邻居 Our neighbours were amused and a bit alarmed.
感到开心，他们有一点惊讶因为这条路也被堵住了两天
The street was blocked for 2 days.
我们做到了这件事 We had a permit.
一套可以在家看的DVD For a private collection.
您去找斯蒂芬妮 See Stéphanie.
是 Neuflize OBC银行吗？ Bank Neuflize OBC?
你们真的该借钱给我们 We need a loan without interest
免利息
这样我们可以更舒服地完成这部电影，拜托了 to finish this film comfortably. Please!
一次无息贷款，因为 A loan without interest. Money was our eternal problem.
资金，一直是我们的问题
花钱，当然，应该要花钱 You must spend, but you must also collect.
但也要收钱
或者说，至少，获得奖杯 If not money, then trophies.
在一个橱柜里，或者在沙滩上 In a closet or on the sand,
德米得的奖和我的奖被摆在一起： Demy's and mine stick together.
戛纳金棕榈奖 A Golden Palm from Cannes. A Golden Lion from Venice.
和威尼斯金狮奖
然后从... And since...
虚荣，虚荣心 Vanitas, vanitatis. （拉丁语） Vanitas, vanitatis...
我扮演角色 I play the role of a little old lady,
扮演一个矮个子老太太的角色
胖乎乎的 又有些话痨 pleasantly plump and talkative,
讲述着她的人生 telling her life story.
但是 And yet, others interest me more. I prefer filming them.
真正让我感兴趣，我喜欢拍摄的，是别人
他人 Others intrigue me, motivate me,
让我好奇
激励着我
吸引着我的关注 arouse my curiosity,
让我分神 disconcert me, fascinate me.
使我感动
这一次，为了谈论我自己，我想： In telling my story, I thought:
如果我们“打开”一些人 If we opened people, we'd find landscapes.
我们会发现一些风景
如果人们“打开”我 If we opened me, we'd find beaches.
他们会发现海滩
-太好了 -转一下，多转一点 Good. Turn it all the way around.
我们知道镜子是(画家的)工具 Painters use mirrors as tools
对想画自画像的画家来说 in making self-portraits.
但 事实上 But actually,
我在镜子前展现 I presented, in my mirror,
所有和我一起工作和陪伴着我的人们 people who worked with and accompanied me.
这是一种方式 It was a way to say
来讲述电影，是其他人和我 the film was about others and me.
或者我和其他人 Or me and others.
然后我想到 And I thought
所有我和别人一起行走的形式 of all the times I marched with others, for various causes.
为了各种各样的原因
然后，我想进行一次游行 I wanted to march in homage to a drawing by Sempé.
为了向我很喜欢的桑贝的一幅画致敬
注：源自Jean-Jacques Sempé的画册 《某些游行者》(Quelques manifestants)
I hurt everywhere
我们拍摄了游行 We filmed the rally,
然后，别人拍下了我，我在人行道上 and me alone on the sidewalk
一个人，举着牌子 with a sign reading, "I hurt everywhere."
“我到处都痛”
我可以一直，如果你想的看的话，（把这个牌子）带给你们看，因为它一直都是有效的 I can march again if you like, it's still true.
总之 In any case, I tried,
我尝试
通过制作这部电影 with this film,
不仅仅讲述我的生活，我的电影 not only to tell my story,
也可以重现 but also to bring to life memories attached to my films.
一些和我的电影有关的回忆
为了不错过 To capture certain moments in the present.
现在的一些瞬间
例如 For example,
我想要参观我小时候的房子，在布鲁塞尔 I wanted to visit my childhood home in Brussels, Rue de l'Aurore.
在晨曦路
因此，我去那里拍摄了 I went to film it,
但我却遇到了一对夫妇 but I met a couple there who collected those little miniature trains.
他们是微型火车模型的收藏家，像这么大的小火车
他们的收藏品是 Their collection was so extraordinary and they were so enthusiastic
如此的与众不同，他们谈论着这些收藏品
带着兴奋之情
最后我拍了一部关于他们的纪录片 that I made a documentary about them.
而也许这么说更有趣一些 It was more entertaining than my old curtains.
说他们挡住了我的去路 而我做的是正确的
So I've been right
我选择了别人而不是我自己 in choosing others over myself.
这个是用黄铜做的 This is a brass piece.
现在，如果我把它弄到瑞士卖，它值8万比利时法郎 It's worth 80, 000 Belgian francs in Switzerland.
这个只限量生产了150个 Only 150 of them were made.
我们内部互相称彼此为“被毁灭的人” We call ourselves "insane for trains."
但火车的“爱好者”的定义 The real term for train lovers, toy trains or real trains,
不管是迷你火车模型还是现实生活中的火车
都是铁道迷 is "trainopath."
铁道迷...
铁道迷？ Trainopath!
因为这是比较罕见的一次机会， And since it was unusual,
也因为我喜欢拍纪录片 and I like making documentaries,
我没有错过偶然间被赐予的机会 I jumped on the chance
offered to me by chance.
而童年回忆的拍摄，则被搁浅了 The "childhood home" part was a flop.
在去短岬的路上， Then I returned to the Pointe Courte where I shot my first film.
我在那儿拍摄了我的第一部电影，也在那儿学会了
Where I learned to choose places and faces
选择地点，人
和（非表演专业的）人们一起拍摄 and work with non-professionals.
他们并不是专业的演员
在路上闲逛时 As I walked around,
我想要创造出一种情景 I wanted to create a situation linked to a memory from the film.
与和电影有关的回忆之间构成联系的情景
创造出一种处于当下的情感 Create an emotion in the present.
事实上 I found some 16mm footage I'd shot as a rough draft of the film.
我找到了一些影像资料
是我用16毫米的胶片拍的，作为电影草图的一些影像
我请我的朋友苏祖 I'd asked my friend Suzou
和她的丈夫，皮埃罗 and her husband Pierrot
稍微模仿一下 to pretend to be the couple
即将出演这部电影的夫妻
in the film.
在剪辑结束之前 Before the final cut, Pierrot died of cancer.
得了癌症的皮埃罗，去世了
《短角情事》
献给皮埃罗....
苏祖抚养了她的两个儿子 Suzou raised their two sons.
布莱斯 Blaise
和文森特 and Vincent.
我邀请他们来分享 Invited them
用一辆推车进行的一个小小的仪式 to share in a ceremony with a cart from the film.
有个设备放映着他们从没看过的试验片 A way to show them the test footage they’d never seen.
他们认识他们父亲的照片 They’d seen their father in photos, but never in motion.
但是他们从没见过处于运动中的，他们的样子
我们在一个夜晚陪伴着 We walked through the night with our beloved friend.
一个我们曾深爱着的朋友
这里有数百个失踪者和逝者 Hundreds of anonymous people, gone and forgotten,
被遗忘了的，无名氏
这激发了波坦斯基的灵感 inspired this Boltanski installation that I filmed.
创造出了一个装置，我拍摄了它
名字，叫做《人们》 It was called Personnes.
数百个生了铁锈的盒子 Hundreds of tin boxes
把他的计划指向了现实 as manifestations of his project.
而每次这些数字让人想起 Each number evokes a person, and each tin is different.
存在过某个人，无疑是不同的，每个盒子都不一样
就好像每次都有人在里面，或者说... It's as though each box has someone inside, someone's heart
或者说，某个人的心脏
某个人的神灵 or someone's spirit.
在这些盒子墙的背后 Behind the wall of tins,
就好像一座为死者而建的纪念碑， like a monument to the dead,
我拍摄了这个巨大的装置： I filmed this gigantic installation.
在地上，散落着成千上万的衣物 On the floor were thousands of clothes.
一座旧衣服的金字塔 And a pyramid of old clothes.
艺术家给予了它们意义 The artist gave them a meaning.
因此，有一个不间断的运动 There's this constant movement.
拿起
用这个抓斗 The claw takes and releases.
再丢下
与此同时，这个抓斗随机抓起（一些衣服） It grabs at random.
对我来说，这有点像“上帝之手”的意思 A bit like the hand of God.
他并没有好坏之分 It's neither good nor evil.
他只是进行他的工作：他抓起，然后放下 It just does its job. Taking and releasing.
是在拍摄一部连续剧的时候
注：《阿涅斯·瓦尔达在这里和那里》 It's part of a series I made around the world.
我环游了世界
我拍摄一些人，一些地方 I filmed people and places.
还有在法国的一些艺术家 And in France, artists.
我喜欢艺术家和电影人的工作 Artists and filmmakers whose work I love open my mind.
它们拓宽了我的精神世界
带给我快乐和能量 They give me pleasure and energy.
还有创造一些装置的愿望 And a desire to invent installations
或者对应不同主题的装置 or methods for each subject, each project.
对应不同的计划
这儿，在南特的一栋建筑的二楼，在废墟里 Here, on the 2nd floor of a condemned building in Nantes,
我想要讲述一些（因无家可归）擅自占用居住地的人 I wanted to show
what life is like for squatters who have nothing
他们一无所有，被人不留情面地驱逐 and are evicted unceremoniously.
我在走廊的墙上贴了告示 I posted information on a wall.
并在一间被废弃了的房间里，我安置了三样关键的东西： In an abandoned room, I installed three essential items.
一个床垫，因为他们寻找一个可以睡觉的地方 A mattress, because they seek a place to sleep.
一个烧木头的炉子，因为他们感到冷 A wood stove, because they're cold.
还有一辆小推车和一个微波炉 And a shopping cart with a microwave, because they're hungry.
因为他们饿着肚子
但，床这个主意，对，它很重要 The idea of a bed is important.
床很重要 拥有一个屋顶（家） A bed is important.
Having a roof over your head.
从高处，我们看到有人扔了床垫，我们把它们捡回来了 Someone left mattresses outside.
We picked them up and brought them home.
把它们捡回我们家
在这里，你一个人住还是和别人一起？ How many people live here?
我们大概有六个人 About 6.
六个或者五个 大概是五个 Yeah, 6 or 5.
我们白白准备了，我们事先就知道 You can prepare all you like,
关于冬天，我们事先就知道，会变冷 but when winter comes, at some point, it’ll be cold.
今年冬天特别难捱 This year, winter was so hard.
因为，我，我没有窗户 I have a bad window, it's already broken.
我的窗户被打碎了
风吹进来，会有水雾，变得潮湿 Air gets in and it's very humid.
人们又会回到马路上 People can end up on the streets.
有一天他们会 One day they might wake up to the police bursting in.
看到警察一大早就出动
那是在早上7点 It was 7 in the morning.
他们按门铃，有很多人 They knocked on many doors.
我们醒得没那么快 We didn't wake up fast enough to open the door.
没来得及给他们开门
他们就破门而入了 They broke it down.
这真的很暴力，因为他们40多个 It was so violent. There were 40 of them.
公安 Over 40 police officers.
和警察
因此，我们被包围了 We were surrounded, people panicked.
他们粗暴地催促着我们
It was so sudden.
我们可能连10分钟都没有 We didn't even have 10 minutes.
甚至都没有
我们的东西还在里面 Our stuff is still in there.
那你可以去那里找回来这些东西啊 Can you get it?
啊不行，我们不可以，因为通道全被封死了 No, they walled it off.
墙的背面 The opposite of a wall is a beach.
是一片海滩
我们可以把它放在墙上 But it can become a wall, as in this installation,
在一个装置里
我用了三种方式来展现海边 where I evoked the seaside in three ways.
一张巨幅照片 A giant photo.
在（照片里的）海浪边缘，泡沫是固定不动的 The seafoam on the wave is still.
然后，固定的照片变成运动的 Then the still image becomes a moving image.
海浪的尽头 The wave breaking on the sand.
是沙滩边上
然后，有沙子 And then sand.
一点具体的现实中的东西 A bit of tangible reality.
就像在《土豆乌托邦》里一样 As in Patatutopia,
我很喜欢靠近 I like to bring together reality and its representation.
现实
和关于现实的艺术品（表现）
这是一个总的计划 That's a general goal,
但也是并列的 but I also juxtapose moving images and still images
运动的画面和固定的画面
在视频里 in video...
在照片里 and in photography.
中间的照片
是一张老照片 The middle image is an old photograph.
一张五十年代，用银版摄影法拍摄的照片 A silver print from the 1950s.
而两边 On either side,
我放了一些数码的彩色照片 I took digital photographs in colour
运动中的斑鸠（的照片） of moving doves.
这些金属相框和我在墨西哥看到的很像 The metal frames resemble frames I saw in Mexico.
而他，是米格尔·巴塞洛（西班牙画家） And he's Miquel Barceló.
另一张三折画： Another triptych.
爱丽丝的照片被挂在了墙上 The photo of Alice hangs on the wall.
而在两边 Next to it, we project a double video.
我们放映两段视频
这令我着迷，因为母牛不怎么动 I was fascinated by how still the cows were.
我们可以停留在某一瞬间，拍摄它们 Filming them for a moment,
并且可以拥有这个脆弱的瞬间 we captured a fleeting instant between stillness and movement.
介于静止和开始运动之间的这个瞬间
有一只动了一只耳朵...然后它开始动了 One flicks her ear, then starts to move.
因此是想要动的欲望 A desire for movement linked to immobility.
和静止之间的联系
这是为我们家的一只猫咪做的 For a family cat,
猫咪茨咕咕 Zgougou,
我给它做了个坟墓 I made a tomb.
我用了斯蒂夫·莱奇的音乐 The animation was done the old way, to music by Steve Reich,
动画是以前制作的
我们拍摄了布置好了的装置 We filmed the finished installation with shells and flowers.
用贝壳和鲜花
然后我们每取走一样东西，拍一张图像 Then we filmed image by image,
removing one element at a time.
这里，我们看到的是倒序播放的镜头 Here the sequence plays backwards.
那一天，埃尔维 You watched me film it, Hervé. You brought your daughter.
你看到我在拍摄，你带着你的女儿一起来
是的，她去了船上 Yes, she went up in the crane.
我们在树中间放了一朵大花 We put a big flower in the tree.
因为需要有一个标记 We needed a marker.
而且我知道为什么 And I knew why.
然后我在那儿，我和你说： I asked you: Will the Foundation pay for a helicopter?
卡地亚基金会能不能帮我付一个小时的直升机租赁费
-是的，当然！ -你忘了 Of course we would!
然后，我们从直升机上航拍了这个小镜头 So we filmed from the helicopter,
拍下了作为标记的红花 using the flower as our guide,
一个运动镜头 a sequence to show that the tomb is near the sea.
为了表明这个坟墓
在海边
而主要是 And most of all, this kitty who was important to us
这只小猫咪在我们的生命中曾经很重要
我们用这座坟墓给予了它另一层意义 took on another dimension with the tomb.
但从越来越远的地方看 But seen from further way, she was like any human.
她就像我们任何一个人类
在这个世界中如此渺小 Miniscule in the universe.
茨咕咕的坟墓 You liked Zgougou's tomb. You bought it.
你很喜欢它...你买下了它
坟墓，是的，我很快就买下了这个短片，是的 I love it. I snapped it up.
-然后, 有另外一件事 像一直以来一样, 我给你打了电话 But that's not all.
我说：“阿涅斯，但为什么我们...” As always, I called you. "Agnès, why don't we...
“为什么我们不把猫放在基金会的花园里” install the cat in the Foundation gardens?"
然后... - And? - He ordered a shack from me.
-然后，他给我推荐了一个小屋 -是这样的
-这个小屋我估计所有人都看到过它，因为它就在花园里 It's out there in the garden.
-它刚好就在那里 Just outside.
一个小小的技术空间 A little soundproofed utility room
我们可以
在里面安装视频和配音 where we can play a video.
按照人们通常的说法，这个视频，它是循环播放的 The video is on a loop.
也就是说无论什么时候 Visitors to the Foundation can drop in anytime.
任何参观
卡地亚当代艺术基金会的人
他们可以去跟茨咕咕打招呼 They can say hi to Zgougou.
在小屋里有一堆东西，一小堆沙子 There's a pile of dirt in the shack.
对 - Yes. - Is there really a cat under it?
那下面真的有只猫吗？
那么真正的问题来了 Good question.
好吧，实际上 In truth, the real cat Zgougou isn't here.
真正的茨咕咕不在这里
但它被埋在像这样的一小堆土下面 She's under a similar pile of dirt
在努瓦穆捷岛上面 on the island of Noirmoutier.
啊好吧
我没参观过太多墓地，但好吧，依旧还是有过几座 I haven't seen many cemeteries.
她们都...相当悲伤 I know they're pretty sad.
但这个墓地 But this one is more...
尽管这是个坟墓，我们该感到有些悲伤，好吧... Even though it's a tomb
and we should be sad,
怎么说...她比较... it's more...
它相对来说比较欢乐，由许多快乐的色彩点缀着 more of a happy place, with fun colours.
我又回到了这里 这样可以更好 I came back, because it's better
（更好地）观看这个短片，当我们独自一个人的时候，我们可以更好地感受事物 to watch the film alone.
You feel things better, in the film.
感受电影里的事物
我也是，当我独自一人在海边时 Me too, when I'm alone by the sea,
我可以更好地感受事物 I feel things better.
并且我感觉到双重的 Things are double.
就在此刻 Even as I enjoy the gentle seascape,
我欣赏着海边风景的温柔
我知道在世界上还有战争 I know the world is filled with war, violence,
有暴力
有痛苦，有流浪 suffering and wandering.
29个人
第二次袭击还在继续
有人刚刚向警察开枪
...一条没有被控制的通道
生与死之间的界限
被越过了
战场的声音震耳欲聋
在反抗者刚开始的时候
移民的一些画面 Images of migrants
在海水里浮沉 然后溺死 struggling and drowning.
直到这张可怕的照片 Then this terrible image,
被全世界看到 seen throughout the world.
我们思考这件事 然后我们遗忘 We think about it, and then we forget.
我们就是这样生活着 That's how we live.
有时，我被邀请去 Occasionally I got to work on the inside of history.
工作
在历史的领域里
今晚的这个盛会，我不得不提一下“正义者” I want to evoke Les Justes tonight.
我经历过战争，我有这些关于战争的回忆 I lived through the war, I remember it.
But I had no traumatic experiences.
但我没有用戏剧性的方式了解过战争
然后当时希拉克总统想要
注：希拉克 法国前总统 任期：1995-2007 President Chirac wanted to pay tribute
致敬法国的“正义者”，在先贤祠
注：“正义者”是对二战时在欧洲救助过犹太人的人的一种敬称 to Les Justes de France at the Pantheon.
然后有人要求我拍一个短片 I was asked to create a short work for the ceremony.
可以在典礼上展示的短片
一场典礼 A ceremony, a choir
一个合唱团
还有我巨大的装置 and my enormous installation.
数百张放置在地上的人像 Hundreds of portraits on the floor
我们展现了那些冒着危险 of those who took risks to save Jews.
拯救犹太人的人们
人们称他们为“正义者” They were named Les Justes, the righteous.
他们的照片 I displayed photographs of them like open books.
我把它们展示出来
就好像打开的书
他们的名字被标在了上面 Their names are on them.
我加入了一些最近拍的肖像 I added recent, unidentified portraits
没有名字的人
他们代表着那些 representing anonymous or unknown Justes.
无名或者不知名的正义者们
为了追念那时的犹太人和正义者们 To evoke Jews and Justes in their time,
我拍摄了两部影片，同时放映 I screened 2 films simultaneously
在放置在穹顶下的四个屏幕里 on 4 screens under the dome.
一段黑白的影像 A black-and-white film
从较远的地方展现 shows at a distance Jews being arrested.
对犹太人的一次逮捕
而在另一面屏幕上 On another screen, detail shots in colour enhance reality.
一些细节的彩色镜头
为了让人感受到现实
观众得把头从一面屏幕转向另一面屏幕 You looked from one screen to the other to follow the action.
来理解这个行为
每个人都得重现 Everyone recreated, for real or mentally,
真实地
或是在心里
（在这个片段）我要给你展现的是 what I'll show you
我把两个屏幕里的东西结合在了一起 in this excerpt fusing images from both screens.
在每个片段的结尾 At the end of each sequence,
我会展现那些 给了我拍摄这个场景的灵感的 正义者的照片 I showed photos of the Justes who inspired the scene
还有一些照片 and photos of those who played the scene.
是那些表演了这些场景的人们的（照片）
而他们并不是真正的演员，但却是“真实的人” They weren't real actors,
but they were real people.
我是这么称呼他们的，从一开始 That's what I've always called
我在街头拍摄的那些人 the people I film in the streets or fields.
或者在乡间拍摄的那些人
他是我家乡的面包师傅 He was a baker in my native country.
然后，同时呢 And then, well... I waited every Wednesday
我等待每个星期三，他拿着面包经过
when he brought his bread, to see him.
为了看到他
然后 Then, six months later, we got married.
六个月以后，我们结婚了
真实的人，人一直是我工作的核心 Real people are at the heart of my work.
而也是他们让我走近了JR I have that in common with JR,
这位城市摄影艺术家 the urban photographer
从10多年起就近距离接触过数千人 who has approached thousands of real people.
我们很快就有了欲望 We wanted to make a film of our encounters with people.
一起拍摄
一部关于相遇的电影
但这一次，是在法国的乡间 This time, in the French countryside.
我们开着他神奇的卡车，出发了 We headed out in his magic truck,
带着倾听不同人的想法的愿望 with the goal of listening to people
并且在这辆卡车里给他们拍照 and photographing them in the truck.
人们，他们从车后面进去 People go into the back, like in a photo booth.
就像去自动拍照亭里
然后照片会在5秒内，从边上出来 The photo comes out 5 seconds later,
大尺寸的照片 in large format.
我们的计划是使用这些照片 The plan was to show them off.
把它们张贴起来 To post them as a counterpoint to models and celebrities
作为对模特和名人的巨幅照片的回应（抗议）
那些照片吹捧着化妆品，车子，或者咖啡 selling cosmetics, cars and coffee.
那时候，我们雇佣了她当服务员 We hired her as a waitress back in...
从五月底到七月初 late May, early summer.
而现在，她变成了博尼约最有名的人 Now she's Bonnieux's most famous face.
你妈妈，在高处（的照片） What do you think of your mum up there?
你们喜欢吗？
她超漂亮的 - She's super pretty. - Indeed. I agree.
啊对，我们也这么觉得
你按那个键拍摄 Press the button.
好了
给我们看看你的自拍 Show us your selfie.
哇！不错哦！ Wow, nice!
你很强嘛 You're good.
我不是拍照的专家 I'm no expert though.
Tickle tickle!
我们进行了这一次社会性的实验 Our social and sociological experiment was full of surprises.
它也是社会学的
我们有一些意外惊喜 譬如 在一个村庄里
In one village, a man said he was the bell-ringer
有个男人跟我们说他是一个敲钟人
然后带我们去了他的钟楼 and took us to his bell tower.
还有 And there was a woman who made goat cheese.
一个女人
她是做奶酪的
用山羊奶做奶酪
她很气愤 She was furious, because other cheesemakers
因为其他的饲养员，生产者
焚烧了山羊的角 were burning goats' horns off.
我们可以在羊群里注意到这件事 We saw it for ourselves.
我们见到了弗朗索瓦兹 We met Françoise.
你们有着唯一一个 You have one of the only herds
有角的羊群 where the goats have horns.
对我来说 To my mind, if a goat has horns, she keeps them.
（既然）山羊长了角，就保留它们的角
我不会把它们摘掉 I'm not going to remove them.
总之，对我来说，这好像... That just seems...
我找不到一个合理的解释 I can find no logical explanation,
或者说因为人们觉得它是一种产品 unless you see them as a product
需要有一定比例的效益 required to attain a certain rate of return,
因此人们消除了所有可能 so you eliminate anything that might make them less profitable
会减少经济效益的因素
然后人们砍断了它们的角 and cut off their horns.
就是这样！
人们把它们烧掉，然后，结束了 Burn them off.
但如果我们从事这项工作 But if you respect the animals,
从尊重动物的角度来说，
对我来说，我们会保留它们的完整性：如果它们长了角，那就保留它们的角 you leave them intact.
If they have horns, they keep them.
它们会打架 Sure, they fight.
不管怎样，人类也会打架 Human beings fight too.
但我，我不太了解这个事情 I didn't know about it
直到你现在告诉我这些事 until you told me just now.
但...关于山羊角的故事 This horn thing.
让我们高兴的是 For this project, we didn't ask people
我们和人们之间建立了一种关系
通过建议人们
无需过多回答我们的问题 to answer our questions,
而是去思考它们 but rather to think, and to invent their own responses
他们自己创造
对不同的情景，他们的回答 to the situations.
我觉得最好保留羊角，然后必要的时候，可以像在牛角上一样，放一些球状保护套 I say put balls on the tips,
like with bulls. Rubber balls.
橡胶材质的小球
这样可能会挺好笑的 Could be funny. Or clown noses.
或者像小丑的鼻子那样
但是用橡胶做的... Rubber ones.
这样的话，山羊会更好笑一些，另外 You could use different colours
为了区分它们，我们可以用红色的球，白色的球，紫色的球，或者大理石纹路的球 to tell them apart. Purple, multicolour, zebra.
你说的对！我喜欢！ Great idea, I love it! Very imaginative.
发挥想象力
我们很高兴认识你 We 're glad we met you.
因为你们的到来，我度过了一段愉快的时光，就这样 I enjoyed meeting you, too.
在一起工作 Our work together
JR和我
我们的友谊成长了 made our friendship grow,
就好像一棵生长着的植物 like a plant.
就像水里的一只鱼 Like a fish in water.
而他，对我很感兴趣，但 He was interested in me,
他是对我的衰老 衰老对我的影响 感兴趣 and he was interested in my ageing.
我有眼疾 I have an eye disease.
考虑到我的职业，这并不太好笑 No fun, considering my profession.
我需要打针 I need shots, check-ups
需要做测试
做一些检查 and exams.
但这些检查是用来做什么的呢？ What kind of exams?
为了清楚地看见字母 Looking at letters.
是这样吗，阿涅斯？ Is this right, Agnès?
这很好 因为下面是模糊的 Yes, the bottom is blurry, but...
但不好的是 该让字母稍微动一下 The letters need to move a little.
它们是怎么动的？ Move how?
就是从高到低，很小幅度地 - Up and down a little. - Got it.
-你去跟他们说 -我去跟他们说 - Go tell them. - Right away.
稍微小小地动一下 Move up and down a little!
现在，我满意了，我看到的就是这样的 Now I'm happy. That's what I see.
这对我来说很重要，因为我们一起找到了 It was important to me
that we find a way to bring beauty to my deteriorating eyesight.
一种把我的视力下降升华的一种方式
而与此同时，我们享受着（拍摄过程）当下的时间 And that we enjoy ourselves on that shoot,
这个拍摄过程充满着惊喜和感动 full of surprises and emotion.
这是令人惊喜的 It's surprising.
但艺术，就是为了给人们制造惊喜，不是吗？ - Art should surprise us, right? - True.
-走吧，过得愉快！再见 -过得愉快！ Have a nice day.
这是我工作的最后一天 我要提前退休了 Today's my last day. I'm taking early retirement.
-今天？ -今天 - Today? - Today.
-这是你在工厂的最后一天？ -这是我的最后一天 - It's your last day? - Yes it is.
如果你想知道的话，我感觉 I feel like I've reached the edge of a cliff,
到达了一个海边峭壁的尽头
而今晚我将跃入虚无 and tonight I'm leaping into the unknown.
噢不！
但我会发现很多东西 I'll discover lots of things.
而我们 And we discovered that fate was with us.
我们在身处的偶然之中探索
有一次，在诺曼底大区，有件事提醒了我 Once in Normandy, fate struck three times.
JR希望我们在一个碉堡上贴人像 JR wanted to paste on a German bunker
从海边峭壁掉下来的一个德国人的碉堡 that had fallen off a cliff.
我说：“碉堡，到处都有” I said, "We can pick any bunker."
但是 But when he said it was at St-Aubin-sur-Mer,
但当他告诉我碉堡是在滨海圣奥班，
我跳了起来 I pricked up my ears.
因为1954年，我去过那里 I'd been there in 1954 with friends
和一些朋友一起
我拍了一些照片 and taken photos on that beach.
在海滩上
一张命名为《尤利西斯》的照片 A photo named Ulysse that inspired a film.
由此拍摄了一部影片
我和我的朋友盖·伯丁一起在那里 I was with my friend Guy Bourdin, a young photographer.
这是一张他很年轻时的照片
他变得很出名 He became very famous, but died young.
但他却英年早逝
我拍摄了一些他的肖像 I did portraits of him.
他一边柔和地摆着姿势，一边幻想 He posed sweetly, dreaming.
当我把盖·伯丁的照片给JR看时 I showed JR my photos of Guy Bourdin,
我们立刻就 and we decided to paste one on the bunker.
决定要把一张他的照片贴到碉堡上
这个拍摄 It was a difficult and dangerous shoot,
既困难又危险
因为必须要考虑到 because the low tide didn't last long.
落潮持续的时间非常短暂
对Guy来说，我想不到更好的方式了 I could imagine nothing better for Guy.
就是这样，他就像一个躺在摇篮里的孩子 Here he is, like a child in his cradle.
平静地休息着 Resting in peace.
第二天早上 The next morning, we went to see.
我们去看了
海潮洗去了图像 The tide had washed the image away.
转瞬即逝的图像，我已经习惯了 Ephemeral images are my stock-in-trade.
但海水太快了 But the sea worked fast.
大海总是对的 The sea has the last word.
还有风和沙子 And the wind, and the sand.
有那么一个瞬间 At one point,
JR和我 曾想象过 JR and I imagined ending the film this way.
以这样的方式结束那部电影
注：《脸庞，村庄》（2017）
我们在扬沙和风暴里消失 Disappearing in a sandstorm.
我想 我将以这种方式 结束这个座谈 I think this is how I'll end this chat.
我消失在模糊中 Disappearing in the blur.
我离开你们 Leaving you.
阿涅斯·瓦尔达
导演&评论